Defensive Midfielder

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Imagine that. A player who can receive the ball from defenders and play it forward.

I mean it's only been what, 4 years since carrick retired? No rush United.

Especially passing it to someone on his team..

Carrick was wonderful but he was absolutely petrified of intense pressing, a tactic that only really became a problem against Barca & Bayern per above. We need a player that can deal with that with how football has evolved whilst retaining his range of passing. That player is De Jong & I hope we get him above most other players out there.

But you also need a centre half who can do the same otherwise you just press the midfielder. Beckenbauer was unbelievable at doing that. So you have 2 ball players to start the attacks. Maybe Varane can do that?

Originally Posted by redhegemony

But you also need a centre half who can do the same otherwise you just press the midfielder. Beckenbauer was unbelievable at doing that. So you have 2 ball players to start the attacks. Maybe Varane can do that?

Varane has looked as much a bomb scare as Maguire in many regards, but he gets a pass because he’s also looked like a Rolls Royce and has won it all and has only been here a year. Next term I expect him to take a big step forward leading the defence, Utd can’t stop to pander to anyones ego. Varane is a lot better than Maguire, De Jong is a lot better than any of our midfielders.

De Gea -> Varane -> De Jong -> Bruno

Being able to play in attackers from 40-50 yards out or pinging into Bruno to play one around the corner etc - variation. Intent to be positive, sounds like ETH’s approach to me. Just let him write the script and they are obliged to follow, anyone who goes outside of that better deliver with goals or assists or they’re out on their ear.

We need a striker, Ronnie is incredible but it’s late in the autumn of his career. A spine… the usual stuff really. Any side out there worth a £#%&! not got a great spine?

I think all central defenders have looked bad because without the ball they are left exposed and when they have the ball the midfield continues to hide.

Originally Posted by armchair

I think all central defenders have looked bad because without the ball they are left exposed and when they have the ball the midfield continues to hide.

There's a lot in this - a good midfield gives the defenders options.

oh for a libero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ZBpUsFrC4

Originally Posted by armchair

I think all central defenders have looked bad because without the ball they are left exposed and when they have the ball the midfield continues to hide.

The Scottish Player.... sure. fred, not so much. the problem is they kept giving fred the ball as he dropped deep with men pressing him, which is nonsense - you have to play round the press (especially if the option is weedy fred). matic, never. but defenders have to know when to move into space themselves or pass longer or, indeed, pass to each other. and there is no point in one defender carrying the ball forward and then losing it because he doesn't know what to do in carrick country. we need defenders who are intelligent, brave and confident... which maguire clearly isn't. varane's problem is staying fit.

but the defence's biggest problem, with the ball and without the ball, is the midfield. which has seemed like an afterthought for some time.

Originally Posted by armchair

I think all central defenders have looked bad because without the ball they are left exposed and when they have the ball the midfield continues to hide.

I think all areas make the others look worse tbh. You’ve got defenders who can’t pass giving hospital balls to midfielders in dangerous areas. You’ve got midfielders hiding when defenders are looking for an out ball. We’ve got lazy forwards, midfielders who can’t pick a pass when the forwards good runs.

We’re just a big mess. In the way good players elevate those around them, bad players drag others down.

A gigantic £#%&!ing whole in our team though is someone who can receive the ball in deeper areas and not absolutely shit themselves. This is why Matic would look good in parts because he has intelligence and composure on the ball. He just moves like a fridge. McFred have the energy and tenacity, but none of the intelligence or guile. Someone like De Jong might not be a ‘CDM’ in a traditional sense, but having players who keep the £#%&!ing ball takes so much pressure off the defence. Look at city. Their defenders are really not very good defenders. They just don’t have to do much defending. Best defensive record in the league because you can’t get the pissing ball off them.

Originally Posted by AK14

Keane evolved into more of a holding midfielder as he got older tbf and Carrick was a different type of holding midfielder.

That’s the type we need imo, someone that sits infront of the back four and that can dictate the game.

No clue if that’s De Jong?

It will be if he has a box to box midfielder next to him. If it’s a CDM, he’ll go forward more with the CDM staying back. He’d be the one dictating the game in either tactical role.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I'd love one of those defensive midfielders that city and liverpool have - that make about 10 bookable fouls a game but never get booked.

The role started by Sergio Busquets and continued with Fernandinho and Fabinho.

De Jong can do that. Ten hag’s teams do that. It’s necessary to cover for the weakness of the tactical system.