Scholes on 3-5-2

MNF discussing 3 at the back vs 4 at the back

60% win ratio with 4 at the back against just a 42% win ratio playing 3 at the back

Another amazing stat from the weekend regarding number of passes by central defenders
Utd 1st half: 114
Utd 2nd half: 54
Chelsea 1st half: 37
Chelsea 2nd half: 40
This is the main problem when we play 3 at the back as the last thing you want is our jokers at the back making the majority of our passes

I think it's fairly emphatic that we get more wins, points, goals and better football with 4 at the back

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

MNF discussing 3 at the back vs 4 at the back

60% win ratio with 4 at the back against just a 42% win ratio playing 3 at the back

Another amazing stat from the weekend regarding number of passes by central defenders
Utd 1st half: 114
Utd 2nd half: 54
Chelsea 1st half: 37
Chelsea 2nd half: 40
This is the main problem when we play 3 at the back as the last thing you want is our jokers at the back making the majority of our passes

I think it's fairly emphatic that we get more wins, points, goals and better football with 4 at the back

Keane wouldn't be happy

Neville made some decent points until he used Rafael/Shaw absence for 3 at the back.

Guess he missed Yeovil.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

MNF discussing 3 at the back vs 4 at the back

60% win ratio with 4 at the back against just a 42% win ratio playing 3 at the back

Another amazing stat from the weekend regarding number of passes by central defenders
Utd 1st half: 114
Utd 2nd half: 54
Chelsea 1st half: 37
Chelsea 2nd half: 40
This is the main problem when we play 3 at the back as the last thing you want is our jokers at the back making the majority of our passes

I think it's fairly emphatic that we get more wins, points, goals and better football with 4 at the back

The stat is slightly misleading as the three at the back games include the three in August when we had no players.

Since LvG brought it back we've only lost once.

Haven't watched MNF but I'd be more interested to hear their thoughts on Rooney in midfield.

https://www.twitter.com/SkySportsMNF/status/557255714637643776

https://www.twitter.com/SkySportsMNF/status/557255244233850880

:shakehead:

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

https://www.twitter.com/SkySportsMNF...55714637643776

https://www.twitter.com/SkySportsMNF...55244233850880

:shakehead:

Literally winning the passing

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

The stat is slightly misleading as the three at the back games include the three in August when we had no players.

Since LvG brought it back we've only lost once.

Haven't watched MNF but I'd be more interested to hear their thoughts on Rooney in midfield.

Exactly, of course they didn't bring that up though.

He also got a bit of a slapdown from Carragher for blaming everything on the formation.

114 in the first half, gotta admit that's a £#%&!ing lot

Though it is deffo part of the process

Noticed how all the stuff they showed, Rooney was slowing/taking the easy option.

He did well for the goal though.

£#%&!ing mental he continues with this dull formation, and won't play Di Maria deeper.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

Noticed how all the stuff they showed, Rooney was slowing/taking the easy option.

He's just not a midfielder. LvG has a great track record for changing players position with great success, especially at Bayern, but this feels like shoehorning him into the side so that he can play all these expensive big name players in attack.

Rooney up front permanently basically means Mata won't get a game.

Find the obsession with the back three when we have Rooney in the middle of the park as the hub of the team baffling tbh

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

He's just not a midfielder. LvG has a great track record for changing players position with great success, especially at Bayern, but this feels like shoehorning him into the side so that he can play all these expensive big name players in attack.

Rooney up front permanently basically means Mata won't get a game.

Find the obsession with the back three when we have Rooney in the middle of the park as the hub of the team baffling tbh

Nobody wants Rooney in midfield and it is a clear problem however you can't ignore the difference playing 4 at back instead of 3 makes to our attacking play
You only need to see the stats about the number of passes by our central defenders to see that with 3 at the back far too much of our possession is with our central defenders

Is that entirely down to 3-5-2 though, or is it also down to a lack of movement and penetration ahead of them?

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Nobody wants Rooney in midfield and it is a clear problem however you can't ignore the difference playing 4 at back instead of 3 makes to our attacking play
You only need to see the stats about the number of passes by our central defenders to see that with 3 at the back far too much of our possession is with our central defenders

Could easily be a link between the defenders doing too much passing and a striker infront of them in midfield tbf.

Of course both Soton and Arsenal played defensively this weekend, not seeking the ball. So a silly comparison tbh.

Also, one more of our players is a defender, so kinda natural that more defenders make passes no?

Originally Posted by Ethers

Is that entirely down to 3-5-2 though, or is it also down to a lack of movement and penetration ahead of them?

Well when we go back to a 4 the amount of possession with our central defenders goes right down and we create more chances

Neville did say that it wasn't just the formation itself but how playing 3 at back affects the mentality of players so that they play safer

Either way it's clear that the players haven't adapted properly to the 352 so he either buys some new players now who suit the formation or he changes it to a formation that better suits the players

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Could easily be a link between the defenders doing too much passing and a striker infront of them in midfield tbf.

Of course both Soton and Arsenal played defensively this weekend, not seeking the ball. So a silly comparison tbh.

Also, one more of our players is a defender, so kinda natural that more defenders make passes no?

Yes but why would you want that when they are the likes of Evans and Jones

It's clearly not a silly comparison with Chelsea who completely dominated Swansea

Sorry but 114 passes by central defenders in a half is £#%&!ing ridiculous

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Well when we go back to a 4 the amount of possession with our central defenders goes right down and we create more chances

Neville did say that it wasn't just the formation itself but how playing 3 at back affects the mentality of players so that they play safer

Either way it's clear that the players haven't adapted properly to the 352 so he either buys some new players now who suit the formation or he changes it to a formation that better suits the players

Or he gives them more than 12 games? Good thing about our current situation is time to experiment.

Fans don't help this situation by trying to tell the manager what to do during games. He's rightly not going to listen to fans so it only develops tension and gives the media more opportunity to stir up shit. Fine online, but at the game stfu imo.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Or he gives them more than 12 games? Good thing about our current situation is time to experiment.

Fans don't help this situation by trying to tell the manager what to do during games. He's rightly not going to listen to fans so it only develops tension and gives the media more opportunity to stir up shit. Fine online, but at the game stfu imo.

You sure about that

Awfully tight between 3rd and 8th at the moment

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Well when we go back to a 4 the amount of possession with our central defenders goes right down and we create more chances

Neville did say that it wasn't just the formation itself but how playing 3 at back affects the mentality of players so that they play safer

Either way it's clear that the players haven't adapted properly to the 352 so he either buys some new players now who suit the formation or he changes it to a formation that better suits the players



Yes but why would you want that when they are the likes of Evans and Jones

It's clearly not a silly comparison with Chelsea who completely dominated Swansea

Sorry but 114 passes by central defenders in a half is £#%&!ing ridiculous

Possession was even. LvG wants United to dominate the ball. Sorry if that's a surprise to anyone, but when he took over it was always going to be something he wants to implement over the course of his tenure here.

We may live in an age where two former defenders on SKY tell us that the richest clubs in the world playing defensively is great stuff, but LvG will want us dominating games and thoroughly smashing teams. That starts by getting the defenders to understand their responsibilities. If that means they play 114 passes in a half at QPR and have to take the odd corner then so be it. This is LvG's vision for us - everyone takes responsibility on the ball. If they can't deal with it, they'll be moved on. But the values won't change.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Could easily be a link between the defenders doing too much passing and a striker infront of them in midfield tbf.

Of course both Soton and Arsenal played defensively this weekend, not seeking the ball. So a silly comparison tbh.

Also, one more of our players is a defender, so kinda natural that more defenders make passes no?

It's a daft stat really, looks great but doesn't mean much.

And concentrating on central defenders is kind of missing the point, because yes we have 1 more, but we also have two less full backs. Who in the other four teams, would regularly be getting the ball at the back in similar positions to our CBs.

Our central defender pass map on saturday versus Chelsea's. It's all down to 3-5-2 though....

Originally Posted by Ethers

It's a daft stat really, looks great but doesn't mean much.

And concentrating on central defenders is kind of missing the point, because yes we have 1 more, but we also have two less full backs. Who in the other four teams, would regularly be getting the ball at the back in similar positions to our CBs.

Our central defender pass map on saturday versus Chelsea's. It's all down to 3-5-2 though....

Yep. Only saw the highlights but again in the first half you're getting our defenders pushed into bringing the ball well up the pitch; I think the confidence is growing a little but the combination play just isn't quite there yet. But whether it's three or four at the back, LvG won't let any of them get away with not playing football because 'it doesn't suit them'. They'll be out on their arse and he'll get someone else.