Louis Van Gaal until 2017?

Originally Posted by Tiberian

We eviscerated Moyes on here for his expectation lowering self defense, for talking like a underdog. LVG serves the same shit after spending £250 million on incoming players, playing the most dreary football of my Utd watching life-time, and looking likely to finish well off the pace in a league that Leicester City are probably going to win. The response, seconds please

Moyes did it with a squad of champions to which he added to players at their peak.

LvG is doing it with a team decimated by injuries, halfway through a complete rebuild incorporating a mass of young players.

Originally Posted by dunk

Moyes did it with a squad of champions to which he added to players at their peak.

LvG is doing it with a team decimated by injuries, halfway through a complete rebuild incorporating a mass of young players.

Such a malleable group. When we want to criticize Moyes they were a team of champions, when we want to defend LVG they were shit@#%&!s full of deadwood he had to dump.

The only thing more boring that his football will be this forum next season when we are going through the same problems. After a poor start, have to give time for the new players to settle, struggles continue, senior players letting him down, shit finish, unlucky with injuries, deserves another season.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Bit giddy from Wilson again, tbh.



Not sure what basis there is for saying Klopp is more flexible. Sounds like a lazy thing to suggest, tbh. If anything surely his career so far has demonstrated an inflexibility, which has seen him unable to reverse decline. By all accounts last season he tried to implement a slightly lower intensity version of his style and it went down so badly with the players that Dortmund tried to get relegated.

Clearly at Liverpool they've only looked good playing high intensity. Doesn't suggest flexibility. Meanwhile, United have played with lots of the ball; we've played with much less of the ball; we've played on the front foot and dominated; we've sat deeper and counter-attacked.

Also not mentioned is that Tuchel took over Dortmund last summer, changed the style from Klopp's hectic 'Heavy Metal' approach to a more possession based football, and they have been revitalised, getting more from Reus, Aubameyang than Klopp ever did.

remember the days when eric used to eulogise the 'symphony' of hoddle's game amid the noise of the english top flight - when it wasn't all bout pumping iron and high pressing intensity

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Such a malleable group. When we want to criticize Moyes they were a team of champions, when we want to defend LVG they were shitc***s full of deadwood he had to dump.

The only thing more boring that his football will be this forum next season when we are going through the same problems. After a poor start, have to give time for the new players to settle, struggles continue, senior players letting him down, shit finish, unlucky with injuries, deserves another season.

it's a process and i like it...

you're right though, people that call fergie's last title-winning team deadwood and shit @#%&!s are £#%&!ing idiots

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Such a malleable group. When we want to criticize Moyes they were a team of champions, when we want to defend LVG they were shit@#%&!s full of deadwood he had to dump.

Not really. The champions we refer to that Moyes had were the likes of Evra, Rio, Vida, Giggs (all captains ffs who left [giggs aside] mostly because of moyes) RVP etc who were largely the same players that fergie won the league with the year before. The 'shit@#%&!s' LVG dumped were more along the lines of Nani, Welbeck, Fletcher who most largely agreed were not united quality.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Such a malleable group. When we want to criticize Moyes they were a team of champions, when we want to defend LVG they were shit@#%&!s full of deadwood he had to dump.

The only thing more boring that his football will be this forum next season when we are going through the same problems. After a poor start, have to give time for the new players to settle, struggles continue, senior players letting him down, shit finish, unlucky with injuries, deserves another season.

By the time LvG got it the 'Champions' had been reduced to rubble and the heartbeat of the side all £#%&!ed off, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs for a start off. Moyes has all 4 and £#%&!ed them all up and off LvG was left with the shit, mainly, that just about everyone in the support had been bemoaning the presence of for 2-3 years...

I know it was only 7-8 months, but I don't think the impact of the Moyes period can be underestimated. He completely eradicated the winning mentality built up over the previous 20-odd years and erased all confidence within the group.

It is a basic truism that it is easier to destroy than to rebuild.

Which in no way excuses all LvGs actions or means he deserves to get another year. But it is still true.

Should the hammers/dippers dispose of us in the respective cup competitions and both go on to finish above us in the league then Houdini himself couldn't riddle himself out of that one.
The only way for vG to see the contract through is to secure a CL spot for next season.
Of the 2 scenarios the former is more likely.

Originally Posted by dunk

By the time LvG got it the 'Champions' had been reduced to rubble and the heartbeat of the side all £#%&!ed off, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Giggs for a start off. Moyes has all 4 and £#%&!ed them all up and off LvG was left with the shit, mainly, that just about everyone in the support had been bemoaning the presence of for 2-3 years...

I know it was only 7-8 months, but I don't think the impact of the Moyes period can be underestimated. He completely eradicated the winning mentality built up over the previous 20-odd years and erased all confidence within the group.

That is difficult to quantify, but one way to aid that dissolution of belief is to continue what Moyes did, the statements he made to the press, "aiming to be as good as City" etc. At this stage into his job Moyes should not be still used as a crutch when defending LVG.

I am not thrilled by the idea of Mourinho, he has not been the same since Madrid, but still won a league with a mediocre Chelsea, but he would restore that arrogance and belief that Utd should be winning most games.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

That is difficult to quantify, but one way to aid that dissolution of belief is to continue what Moyes did, the statements he made to the press, "aiming to be as good as City" etc. At this stage into his job Moyes should not be still used as a crutch when defending LVG.

I am not thrilled by the idea of Mourinho, he has not been the same since Madrid, but still won a league with a mediocre Chelsea, but he would restore that arrogance and belief that Utd should be winning most games.

the only thing that restores that is the team/squad being good enough to and actually going on long winning/unbeaten runs. Mourinho just doesn't come in and *bam* it's there. The young players, and newer signings, have to find their form and the results and gain the required confidence from it. It doesn't happen over night.

Originally Posted by dunk

Ferguson's formula wasn't working after 3 seasons

If the current set up wasn't so focused around a group of kids, I'd probably be inclined to agree with the idea he should be binned, as it is I think he's the best person to carry on with the current squad, and to add to it. He's had just about every bit of bad luck going in the last 4-5 months, some self inflicted, and deserves the chance to come out the other side, imo.

It's not logical to suggest that one situation that wasn't working after three years and eventually came good, means that all situations that aren't working will eventually come good. Every situation has to be judged on it's own merits. The United that Ferguson took over is not the same as the one Van Gaal did, but at this point it's probably better to judge VG by VG's targets rather than ours; cleaner. To this point he has failed.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

I am not thrilled by the idea of Mourinho, he has not been the same since Madrid, but still won a league with a mediocre Chelsea,

Mediocre Chelsea?
Remind me ...

Originally Posted by utd99

It's not logical to suggest that one situation that wasn't working after three years and eventually came good, means that all situations that aren't working will eventually come good. Every situation has to be judged on it's own merits. The United that Ferguson took over is not the same as the one Van Gaal did, but at this point it's probably better to judge VG by VG's targets rather than ours; cleaner. To this point he has failed.

I wasn't, I was just pointing out that not everything stays bad forever. The parallels obviously being huge overhaul and young players. Decent start followed by a bit of a dip. He hasn't failed. He got us back in the CL after 1 season, that's not failure. This year has been a huge disappointment nqat, some mitigation though. Enough to deserve to keep going.

I don't think there is an obvious enough replacement that we just have to get to justify binning him. Certainly not Mourinho.

Originally Posted by ashtonred

Mediocre Chelsea?
Remind me ...

They won the title easily last year, but they were hardly close to his earlier Chelsea teams were they?

Squeezed the last out of Terry with an adequate partner in Cahill, the same with Drogba as a back up to Costa, Hazard had a great season, Willian and Oscar were more workhorses backing him up. I did not expect them to collapse as they have this season but they were not a team likely to dominate without significant improvements.

Mourinho got the most out of what he had, which LVG has failed to do, injuries and disruptions accepted.

Surely, despite all the bigger picture and any good he might be doing behind the scenes, there has to be a bare minimum requirement each season.

After last season, would anybody have called failure to make top four and falling out of that CL group anywhere near acceptable? Not to mention the appalling standard of entertainment?

It's all very well letting him 'finish what he started', but he's 2/3 through it and would even admit himself that he is not where we want to be.

There has to be a cut off point? Would we accept relegation and allow him to finish his master plan? Ofcourse not. Well, how about bottom half?....outside the top 8, because that's just as likely right here and now as fourth is.

Quite simply, if he doesn't make the top four, he will be rightly sacked.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Surely, despite all the bigger picture and any good he might be doing behind the scenes, there has to be a bare minimum requirement each season.

After last season, would anybody have called failure to make top four and falling out of that CL group anywhere near acceptable? Not to mention the appalling standard of entertainment?

It's all very well letting him 'finish what he started', but he's 2/3 through it and would even admit himself that he is not where we want to be.

There has to be a cut off point? Would we accept relegation and allow him to finish his master plan? Ofcourse not. Well, how about bottom half?....outside the top 8, because that's just as likely right here and now as fourth is.

Quite simply, if he doesn't make the top four, he will be rightly sacked.

I don't think he will.

Originally Posted by dunk

I don't think he will.

Deluded huh

Hes history. The only reason he hasnt been sacked mid season is due to woodward being a coward

Originally Posted by dunk

I don't think he will.

Don't think he'll make top four?

I agree.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Don't think he'll make top four?

I agree.

Don't think he'll be sacked. Someone has to battle through this shit period of transition/rebuild, a flake like Mourinho or a rookie like Giggs aren't going to do it. There's more shit to come too.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

They won the title easily last year, but they were hardly close to his earlier Chelsea teams were they

Mourinho got the most out of what he had, which LVG has failed to do, injuries and disruptions accepted.

But not this year without the amount of injuries United had.

We are lacking a striker.

Vardy 19*
Lukaku 18
Kane 17
Aguero 16
Mahrez 15*
rooney 7#
martial 7#

Originally Posted by Tiberian

They won the title easily last year, but they were hardly close to his earlier Chelsea teams were they?

It was all over by the end of February - they were outstanding. From March onwards they sat back a bit to focus on the CL. Fergie did the same when he had the PL wrapped up by the beginning of Spring.