how much of a myth is mourinho's ability as a manager?

what are his achievements?

- winning the cl with porto
- winning the premier league a couple of times with chelsea
- leading the scudetto

the porto win is impressive - the only time a genuine outsider has won it, after all - but we know that (a) he has a russian linesman and an american keeper to thank and (b) his team were a hideous bunch of cheating, whining, snidey @#%&!s. still, that is a good achievement.

the premier league was won at a time when united were in the doldrums and in the process of building a new team - the kind of time when arsenal usually win the title. it was also won with unheard of spending power. again, he won and that is all he could do, but the amount he had to spend rather lessens the achievement for me, as does the fact that chelsea clearly bought up players they knew united were planning to build their team around (essien, robben, mikel) and bought up players they feared their opponents might buy (swp).

in italy inter have been dominant for years. under the previous coach they won three in a row so, again, winning the italian league is not something you can really chalk up as an outstanding achievement.

with all that, mourinho's lauded tactical acumen seems too often to result in essentially hitting it up to a big target man (drogba, adriano, ibrahimovich) with runners off him, while a narrow, highly physical and powerful midfield plays conservatively behind to restrict the opposition. with individual exceptions, his sides tend to favour power over art and solidity over expression.

fair? a lot of the reverence mourinho gets is due to his time at chelsea and his gift for publicity. certainly he is a master with the media. but do the teams he has produced and the football they play really justify the reputation he has built up? is he, in fact, simply a good coach who has been blessed to date with extraordinary luck at porto and a very fortunate and unique situation at chelsea?

poll to follow...

didnt he win a couple of league titles and a UEFA cup with Porto as well ?

i thing hes a motivator and a coach whos approach is not to lose matches rather than go out and win matches......grinding the opposition down with dull defensive tictacs and pinching a goal on the break....worked for GG and arsenal, has worked for him....its not pretty

excellent manager.

Not even in the same ball park as SAF but success in 3 countries, winning trophies and making pretty good players into pretty damn effective ones, one can not deny he has talent as a manager.

mourinho still has 111 home games unbeaten too

top manager

top @#%&!

his sides don't play football i'd want to have to pay to see every week

Originally Posted by dontdopeas84

mourinho still has 111 home games unbeaten too

£#%&!ing ell look at Statto

Originally Posted by Billy Baroo

top manager

top @#%&!

his sides don't play football i'd want to have to pay to see every week

or even watch for free

Originally Posted by elephantstone

£#%&!ing ell look at Statto

not a patch on souness

Henry Fonda in 'Twelve Angry Men' here - swimming against the tide, fighting the moonlight with LeAnn Rimes etc.

He is a good manager - luck would not enable him to get this far in such a short time.

I would hate him at OT and think his style is not suitable for us - but in what he does bring to the table, he's excellent.

Come on - if he is not a good manager, that means you areonly looking at about 5 good managers int he world over the last 10 years.

Capello?
Lippi?
Hitzfeld?
Wenger ?
Le Guen?
Quireoz?

Seriously we can't judge all managers at SAF's level. It's like comparing all women to Salma Hayek or all pies to Holland's.

He did well by sticking Ibrahimovich on O'Shea. That had me shitting myself for a while.

Originally Posted by Jez Quigley

Henry Fonda in 'Twelve Angry Men' here - swimming against the tide, fighting the moonlight with LeAnn Rimes etc.

He is a good manager - luck would not enable him to get this far in such a short time.

I would hate him at OT and think his style is not suitable for us - but in what he does bring to the table, he's excellent.

Come on - if he is not a good manager, that means you areonly looking at about 5 good managers int he world over the last 10 years.

Capello?
Lippi?
Hitzfeld?
Wenger ?
Le Guen?
Quireoz?

Seriously we can't judge all managers at SAF's level. It's like comparing all women to Salma Hayek or all pies to Holland's.

1. Sir Alex - 10 domestic league titles. 2 European cups. 1 cup winners cup.

2. Lippi - 5 titles. 1 european cup (plus 3 r/u). 1 world cup

3. Cappello - 8 titles. 1 european cup. (2 r/u)

4 Hitzfeld - 8 titles (two swiss). 2 european cups (1 r/u)

5 van Gaal - 5 league titles (3 Eredivise, 2 La Liga), 1 European Cup (1 r/u), 1 UEFA Cup

6 Mourinho - 4 titles. 1 european cup. 1 uefa cup.

7 Del Bosque - 2 titles. 2 european cups.

8. Wenger - 3 titles. 1 r/u in euro cup and 1 in uefa

9 Benitez - 2 titles. 1 european cup (1 r/u). 1 uefa cup

10. Trappatoni - 3 titles (1 swiss). 2 uefa cups.

11. Sven Goran Erikson - 2 league titles. 1 uefa cup (1 r/u).

12. Walter Smith - 7 titles (scottish)

Feel free to edit. Hiddink should probably have an entry

how damn lucky we are to have had SAF as manager over the years.

What a manager. The Bobby Heenan of the football world. The Chesley B 'Sully' Sullenberger of managers.

Originally Posted by Jez Quigley

Seriously we can't judge all managers at SAF's level. It's like comparing all women to Salma Hayek or all pies to Holland's.

dawsons pies > hollands

Porto only won the European Cup because of bent referees.

Amazing how everyone conveniently forgets what went on at Porto then- not saying Mourinho was in anyway responsible but his career was based on cheating.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

He did well by sticking Ibrahimovich on O'Shea. That had me shitting myself for a while.

What stopped you? ibrahimovic being pretty poor or o' Shea being pretty good?

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

What stopped you? ibrahimovic being pretty poor or o' Shea being pretty good?

The final whistle I'd imagine.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

What stopped you? ibrahimovic being pretty poor or o' Shea being pretty good?

I thought Ibrahimovic caused us problems when he went over to O'Shea.

Originally Posted by dodger

1. Sir Alex - 10 domestic league titles. 2 European cups. 1 cup winners cup.

2. Lippi - 5 titles. 1 european cup (plus 3 r/u). 1 world cup

3. Cappello - 8 titles. 1 european cup. (2 r/u)

4 Hitzfeld - 8 titles (two swiss). 2 european cups (1 r/u)

5 van Gaal - 5 league titles (3 Eredivise, 2 La Liga), 1 European Cup (1 r/u), 1 UEFA Cup

6 Mourinho - 4 titles. 1 european cup. 1 uefa cup.

7 Del Bosque - 2 titles. 2 european cups.

8. Wenger - 3 titles. 1 r/u in euro cup and 1 in uefa

9 Benitez - 2 titles. 1 european cup (1 r/u). 1 uefa cup

10. Trappatoni - 3 titles (1 swiss). 2 uefa cups.

11. Sven Goran Erikson - 2 league titles. 1 uefa cup (1 r/u).

12. Walter Smith - 7 titles (scottish)

Feel free to edit. Hiddink should probably have an entry

plus the stuff he won in Scotland

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

I thought Ibrahimovic caused us problems when he went over to O'Shea.

A coupla moments in that 15 or 20 minute period they had where they played better, not much really though. VDS had very little to do.