Another lvg thread

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Wouldn't that just be moving Rooney out of position? I'm not against that side, but it says a lot about Mata and Rooney.

Rather than playing our future striker out of position you mean?

Schneiderlin and Herrera as holding midfielders, Mata in the creative role and the front three mentioned would mean that we would have a much more fluid team and be using most players in a better way than they currently are. Or just shoot Fellaini in the mutha£#%&!in face.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Obviously we've had loads of back him / sack him polls but I still felt there was a gap in the lvg thread market.

Just wondered if any of the cardies or anyone for that matter felt that lvg was doing a good job or had done to date? If so, what do think he's done well? Are we where you thought we would be 20 months into his reign? Squad development/evolution/results/style of play/possession stats etc.

This isn't to encourage a sack him / back him debate or to talk endlessly about what a huge restructure he has had to undertake. Just trying to understand where people are at.

Not had a poll for a while, pol.

Originally Posted by 92ToBury

Schneiderlin and Herrera as holding midfielders, Mata in the creative role

everyone is entitled to an opinion.

my opinion is that you must be #@&%!ed.

Originally Posted by itisme_panaflex

That's just not true at all tbf.

Some people have short memories.

Yep, it wasn't just results wise that Gollum's comedy of errors was so soul-destroying.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Yep, it wasn't just results wise that Gollum's comedy of errors was so soul-destroying.

Almost as soul destroying as Van Gaal asking how many chances Sheffield United of League 1 created?

Moyes was a clown but at least they didn't let him spend a fortune. Every single United game is tedious now.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

Almost as soul destroying as Van Gaal asking how many chances Sheffield United of League 1 created?

Moyes was a clown but at least they didn't let him spend a fortune. Every single United game is tedious now.

Well, yes. It's tedious, but we were getting battered.

It's not defending van Gaal to say it's not as bad as Moyes. We're aiming a fair bit higher than "better than Moyes" and he's not delivering.

Good stuff:

1. Tactical discipline. Could write a lot on this, but can't really be bothered. I'd hope everyone can see this.

2. Counter-pressing and medium and high pressing in the defensive phase. There have been a few matches where it's failed, but overall our pressing in transition and in the defensive phase is very good. This is not easy to implement and takes a lot of work on the training pitch. The only other English team who do this to anything like the same standard are Spurs. (Liverpool will get very good at this under Klopp, too, I'm sure.) The Dan Altman thing I posted the other day quantifies this nicely.

3. Dominating possession and building from the back. For most of last season, the majority of teams we faced - even much weaker ones - tried to press us during the first phase, to disrupt our build-up from the back, and we couldn't cope at all. We frequently ended up with the defenders having to play back to De Gea, who would then punt the ball up the pitch. That improved as the season progressed, and we have, on the whole, maintained that improvement this season. Now teams generally opt to defend against us with a low block, playing on the counter. Even City chose to park the bus when they came to Old Trafford, rather than trying to implement a high press, as they did in the 2014/15 home match.

4. Defensive improvement. The standard of our pressing and our league-leading ball possession have, together, been effective in preventing our opponents from creating opportunities and scoring goals against us. We concede few chances, and even fewer of quality. Michael Caley's expected goals model, for instance, has us with the fewest expected goals conceded in the league, we've conceded the second fewest goals, even after our meltdown over the past six weeks or so, and have the highest number of clean sheets.

This is far from easy to achieve, as evidenced, for instance, by Andre Villas-Boas's struggles when trying to implement a similar approach with Chelsea and Spurs.

5. Overhaul of the playing squad. You can certainly question some of the signings, and some of the outgoings, but overall the next manager should take over a leaner, better balanced squad with an improved age profile compared to the one Van Gaal inherited.

6. Use of young players. I can think of few managers who, in the same position, would've made such a large use of young players, whether brought in or coming from the club's academy.

To this end, the relatively small squad of senior players this season was the result of a conscious decision by Van Gaal, one with two goals: firstly, to ensure that everyone in the squad feels they have a good chance of getting a quantity of playing time; and secondly, to give more opportunities to players from the youth system.

Mistakes, perhaps, but brave decisions, in my view, and in keeping with the club's traditions.

Bad stuff:

1. Playing through the lines. We don't get enough players positioned between the lines, and don't play through the lines enough. We've shown that we can do it, but we aren't. One of the core principles of Van Gaal's philosophy, but he hasn't been able to implement it effectively this season.

2. Speed of ball circulation. Van Gaal knows this isn't right, as he constantly mentions it, but he hasn't managed to fix it. If you circulate the ball too slowly, the opposition have time to adjust and, hence, you don't create gaps or force them into making tactical mistakes. A consistent problem and an area in which I expected improvement this season.

3. Combination play between wingers and fullbacks, and crossing. We developed this during the second half of last season, with Blind-Young-Fellaini on the left and Mata-Herrera-Carrick on the right, but we've seen very little of it this season. Particularly since Shaw's injury. The fullbacks don't time their over- and under-laps effectively, so we don't work the ball into enough dangerous crossing positions, instead crossing too soon and from too deep a position. Also means we don't get enough players into the box. Ferguson was an absolute master at getting this right.

4. Rooney. I'm rather sympathetic on this, as Rooney signed a huge long-term contract less than a year before Van Gaal arrived, is the club's highest profile player, and is by far the club's biggest commercial draw. Sitting him on the bench regularly would be extremely difficult - even taking him off penalties led to an inquest by the press - and it would be tough to find any suitor even willing to come close to matching his contract, but it's nonetheless true that Van Gaal has opted to put a lot of responsibility on Rooney's shoulders this season. Captain and only senior striker. It could have been otherwise. A gamble, given Rooney's age and declining performance levels, and one that clearly hasn't paid off.

5. Not enough chances. Not enough goals. We can debate the causes - the above issues all play a big role, in my view - but the facts on this are undeniable. Expected improvement, but instead we're worse this season.

6. Fellaini. Fellaini has shown that he can be useful under the right conditions, but he simply doesn't fit into the system that we've been playing this season. He doesn't have the technical quality, vision and agility to play as a number 10, nor does he possess the tactical intelligence and positional discipline to play as one of the pivots. Other than when it's been dictated by injuries, it mystifies me why he's started so many matches in those positions.

7. Di Maria. Record signing sold within less than a year. Could have been worse, as a large part of the fee was recouped, but it's still poor to get something like this so wrong.

Overall, although I think he's done some very interesting work at United, it seems likely that his time at the club will end as a failure. Even as a failure, however, I still firmly believe that he can have a long-term beneficial impact on the club. That's down to the club hierarchy demonstrating that they have a clear vision and football strategy, though. Very difficult to have much faith there at the moment.

Oh and if Guardiola is still gettable, then the club should go all-out for him; otherwise I'm for sticking with the big man. No illusions that I'm in any way representative, though, even on this forum. And, from experience, this forum is a veritable LVG love-in when compared to the opinions of the average United fan out there in the real world

Nrat

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

Good stuff:

1. Tactical discipline. Could write a lot on this, but can't really be bothered. I'd hope everyone can see this.

2. Counter-pressing and medium and high pressing in the defensive phase. There have been a few matches where it's failed, but overall our pressing in transition and in the defensive phase is very good. This is not easy to implement and takes a lot of work on the training pitch. The only other English team who do this to anything like the same standard are Spurs. (Liverpool will get very good at this under Klopp, too, I'm sure.) The Dan Altman thing I posted the other day quantifies this nicely.

3. Dominating possession and building from the back. For most of last season, the majority of teams we faced - even much weaker ones - tried to press us during the first phase, to disrupt our build-up from the back, and we couldn't cope at all. We frequently ended up with the defenders having to play back to De Gea, who would then punt the ball up the pitch. That improved as the season progressed, and we have, on the whole, maintained that improvement this season. Now teams generally opt to defend against us with a low block, playing on the counter. Even City chose to park the bus when they came to Old Trafford, rather than trying to implement a high press, as they did in the 2014/15 home match.

4. Defensive improvement. The standard of our pressing and our league-leading ball possession have, together, been effective in preventing our opponents from creating opportunities and scoring goals against us. We concede few chances, and even fewer of quality. Michael Caley's expected goals model, for instance, has us with the fewest expected goals conceded in the league, we've conceded the second fewest goals, even after our meltdown over the past six weeks or so, and have the highest number of clean sheets.

This is far from easy to achieve, as evidenced, for instance, by Andre Villas-Boas's struggles when trying to implement a similar approach with Chelsea and Spurs.

5. Overhaul of the playing squad. You can certainly question some of the signings, and some of the outgoings, but overall the next manager should take over a leaner, better balanced squad with an improved age profile compared to the one Van Gaal inherited.

6. Use of young players. I can think of few managers who, in the same position, would've made such a large use of young players, whether brought in or coming from the club's academy.

To this end, the relatively small squad of senior players this season was the result of a conscious decision by Van Gaal, one with two goals: firstly, to ensure that everyone in the squad feels they have a good chance of getting a quantity of playing time; and secondly, to give more opportunities to players from the youth system.

Mistakes, perhaps, but brave decisions, in my view, and in keeping with the club's traditions.

Bad stuff:

1. Playing through the lines. We don't get enough players positioned between the lines, and don't play through the lines enough. We've showed that we can do it, but we're not doing it this season. One of the core principles of Van Gaal's philosophy, but he hasn't been able to implement it effectively this season.

2. Speed of ball circulation. Van Gaal knows this isn't right, as he constantly mentions it, but he hasn't managed to fix it. If you circulate the ball too slowly, the opposition have time to adjust and, hence, you don't create gaps or force them into making tactical mistakes. A consistent problem and an area in which I expected improvement this season.

3. Combination play between wingers and fullbacks, and crossing. We developed this during the second half of last season, with Blind-Young-Fellaini on the left and Mata-Herrera-Carrick on the right, but we've seen very little of it this season. Particularly since Shaw's injury. The fullbacks don't time the over and underlaps effectively, so we don't work the ball into enough dangerous positions crossing positions, instead crossing too soon and from too deep a position. Also means we don't get enough players into the box. Ferguson was an absolute master at getting this right.

4. Rooney. I'm rather sympathetic on this, as Rooney signed a huge long-term contract less than a year before Van Gaal arrived, is the club's highest profile player, and is by far the club's biggest commercial draw. Sitting him on the bench regularly would be extremely difficult - even taking him off penalties led to an inquest by the press - and it would be tough to find any suitor even willing to come close to matching his contract, but it's nonetheless true that Van Gaal has opted to put a lot of responsibility on Rooney's shoulders this season. Captain and only senior striker. It could have been otherwise. A gamble, given Rooney's age and declining performance levels, and one that clearly hasn't paid off.

5. Not enough chances. Not enough goals. We can debate the causes - the above issues all play a big role, in my view - but the facts on this are undeniable. Expected improvement, but instead we're worse this season.

6. Fellaini. Fellaini has shown that he can be useful under the right conditions, but he simply doesn't fit into the system that we've been playing this season. He doesn't have the technical quality, vision and agility to play as a number 10, nor does he possess the tactical intelligence and positional discipline to play as one of the pivots. Other than when it's been dictated by injuries, it mystifies me why he's started so many matches in those positions.

7. Di Maria. Record signing sold within less than a year. Could have been worse, as a large part of the fee was recouped, but it's still poor to get something like this so wrong.

Overall, although I think he's done some very interesting work at United, it seems likely that his time at the club will end as a failure. Even as a failure, however, I still firmly believe that he can have a long-term beneficial impact on the club. That's down to the club hierarchy demonstrating that they have a clear vision and football strategy, though. Very difficult to have much faith there at the moment.

Oh and if Guardiola is still gettable, then the club should go all-out for him, otherwise I'm for sticking with the big man. No illusions that I'm in any way representative, though, even on this forum. And, from experience, this forum is a veritable LVG love-in when compared to the opinions of the average United fan out there in the real world

Good post as per.

Next move feels the most important thing. Ripping it all up and going in a completely different direction is most likely, I suspect.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

1. Tactical discipline. Could write a lot on this, but can't really be bothered. I'd hope everyone can see this.

Tactical discipline = defensive/harder to beat, obviously.

We have no balance between attack and defence. When we generally attack, were wide open at the back, when we tighten up, we offer £#%&! all threat the other day. Its an absolute joke how bad it is tbh and the manager has to take the stick this far in, and I even like the guy.

Nah they have demonstrated the ability to follow game plans with good concentration levels. Obviously you can do plenty of good things in terms of training and execute many of the boring basics very well as a team, but actually scoring goals is what it's all about.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Nah they have demonstrated the ability to follow game plans with good concentration levels. Obviously you can do plenty of good things in terms of training and execute many of the boring basics very well as a team, but actually scoring goals is what it's all about.

fellaini to mata...... oh.

Originally Posted by jem

everyone is entitled to an opinion.

my opinion is that you must be #@&%!ed.

I'm very pleased for you. Have you run out of crayons to suck?

Originally Posted by jem

fellaini to mata...... oh.

I'm not a great Mata fan, but it would be a shame if LvG's reign does indeed end with Fellaini shaping many of the memories. It's been very odd. Supposedly tried to get rid of him upon arrival, spends spells out of the team (he'd played very few league minutes until about a month ago) and yet again the Italian papers full of rumours that he's available.

Surely the games against Chelsea and Swansea without Fellaini showed that he should not return. I hope that his inclusion on Saturday was merely giving him minutes in the less important fixture, but you can very much see him in the side for Anfield.

Fellaini ffs. Why, Big Man?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I'm not a great Mata fan, but it would be a shame if LvG's reign does indeed end with Fellaini shaping many of the memories. It's been very odd. Supposedly tried to get rid of him upon arrival, spends spells out of the team (he'd played very few league minutes until about a month ago) and yet again the Italian papers full of rumours that he's available.

Surely the games against Chelsea and Swansea without Fellaini showed that he should not return. I hope that his inclusion on Saturday was merely giving him minutes in the less important fixture, but you can very much see him in the side for Anfield.

Fellaini ffs. Why, Big Man?

Liverpool have really struggled with a big lump up front they are quite a small team & with their injuries at cb id chuck him in.

Originally Posted by Sizlack

Liverpool have really struggled with a big lump up front they are quite a small team & with their injuries at cb id chuck him in.

Didn't Felli start as a striker against them at OT?

Better than in midfield tbf.

His pre match presser

On fans leaving early:
Quizzed on fans leaving the stadium before the final whistle, when the score was still 0-0, the manager said: “I think the fans have supported our team and it is not an easy time now. The fans were there also. How many stadiums were like our stadium – it was full, I think? You can mention how they leave but you can also mention how they come to this stadium for the FA Cup match.”

“It could also be because of the traffic that they left the stadium a few minutes earlier. There are many reasons to leave a stadium at the last minute. Me, as a manager, when I was looking at matches to analyse our opponent, I have done that [left early] also in the beginning of my years as a manager. Then I would leave the stadium five minutes before the end. You never know what is the reason.”

On Scholes:
Van Gaal was also asked to comment on criticism from United legend Paul Scholes, who claimed at the weekend that the manager and his players looked bored against the Blades at Old Trafford. “What do I have to do now, to react to Paul Scholes?” the boss replied with a smirk. “Do you want that?”

On ironic cheering:
The manager was also asked if the loud cheers that followed Memphis Depay’s late shot against the Blades were perhaps ironic due to a lack of shooting, to which he replied: “Yes, I can understand that because it was a fact that we were not shooting too much or were not able to shoot at the goal so much. That they were ironic I can imagine. Because it was our first shot after 20 minutes.”

Love big LVG

Originally Posted by Clarkie

His pre match presser

On fans leaving early:
Quizzed on fans leaving the stadium before the final whistle, when the score was still 0-0, the manager said: “I think the fans have supported our team and it is not an easy time now. The fans were there also. How many stadiums were like our stadium – it was full, I think? You can mention how they leave but you can also mention how they come to this stadium for the FA Cup match.”

“It could also be because of the traffic that they left the stadium a few minutes earlier. There are many reasons to leave a stadium at the last minute. Me, as a manager, when I was looking at matches to analyse our opponent, I have done that [left early] also in the beginning of my years as a manager. Then I would leave the stadium five minutes before the end. You never know what is the reason.”

On Scholes:
Van Gaal was also asked to comment on criticism from United legend Paul Scholes, who claimed at the weekend that the manager and his players looked bored against the Blades at Old Trafford. “What do I have to do now, to react to Paul Scholes?” the boss replied with a smirk. “Do you want that?”

On ironic cheering:
The manager was also asked if the loud cheers that followed Memphis Depay’s late shot against the Blades were perhaps ironic due to a lack of shooting, to which he replied: “Yes, I can understand that because it was a fact that we were not shooting too much or were not able to shoot at the goal so much. That they were ironic I can imagine. Because it was our first shot after 20 minutes.”

Hmmm....

Also confirmed Schweini injured ffs.

Whatever you think of him, we do better when he plays.