The myth of Fraudiola pt 2

Originally Posted by avocado

Effective does not mean best.

At one point his Barca team were awesome to watch. I loved seeing them play - Xavi in particular was just incredible at running the game. Whether it was down to Guardiola or having some of the best players to have ever kicked a ball in the same team is another debate - I think they definitely played some of the best football I’ve seen.

Originally Posted by armchair

if we are throwing around rumours rio and stam.

Neither of them are really rumours tbf

Originally Posted by armchair

I hated their football but it was effective. They made us look like a team from the 30s or something. Absolutely humiliated us.

A bit what it must have been like watching England v Hungary in the 1950s.

Yes, he is a great manager. But not - emphatically NOT - the "best ever".

Originally Posted by Lok

Superb manager but massively £#%&!ed up tonight.

If Ole did that we'd be going £#%&!ing mental. The moment I saw the team sheet I knew they were in trouble. Crazy. Literally playing into Chelsea's hands.

He pretty much did the other day - and yes, we did

He wasn't Cruyff but he did evolve football. You've got to give him credit.

Originally Posted by armchair

He wasn't Cruyff but he did evolve football. You've got to give him credit.

Not denying that but I stand by what I say about who was best to watch. Great football is more than technical ability.

Originally Posted by avocado

Not denying that but I stand by what I say about who was best to watch. Great football is more than technical ability.

italian football was top for a while and was the worst thing ever to watch. The best football to watch is rarely the best football.

Italian football in it's pomp was the worst football.

Originally Posted by armchair

if we are throwing around rumours rio and stam.

Fuentes and the bloodbags aren't rumours, it was proven that Spanish athletes were cheating on an industrial scale and it didn't take more than one look at that Barca team charging around at a thousand miles an hour to realise they were at it.

Originally Posted by Zorg

He’s a superb manager, come on. But he’s never had to battle, not really. Barca with Messi, Bayern, city’s oil billions. Wonder how he’d get on at Watford.

Luis Enrique came in and equalled guardiola's greatest achievement straight away in 2015 and did it playing more exciting football.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Luis Enrique came in and equalled guardiola's greatest achievement straight away in 2015 and did it playing more exciting football.

Come on he innovated in a way not seen since Cruyff. I was one of the first to say his football was horrible while most people thought it was pretty passing and progressive.

Originally Posted by armchair

Come on he innovated in a way not seen since Cruyff. I was one of the first to say his football was horrible while most people thought it was pretty passing and progressive.

Great side, he has a way of playing that game that i don't find enjoyable to watch. It's technically very good but doesn't make for entertaining football. He finds more and more inventive ways of stopping a game of football breaking out. It's suffocating, cynical and very effective.

But without messi to add the flourish, you have what we saw tonight. A lot of jabs but no knockout punch

The front 3 of Messi, Suarez and Neymar were far more entertaining.

Would he have won us a league title at any point after Ferguson?

I’d be confident in saying yes. He doesn’t sign many idiots and he doesn’t keep many either.

He inherited the best club football side of its generation (in Barça), that helps push the idea that he plays beautiful football when realistically now he plays chess.

Originally Posted by ryanMUFC

Would he have won us a league title at any point after Ferguson?

I’d be confident in saying yes. He doesn’t sign many idiots and he doesn’t keep many either.

He inherited the best club football side of its generation (in Barça), that helps push the idea that he plays beautiful football when realistically now he plays chess.

Would you? He wouldn't be given 300 million every year to spend on defenders and goalkeepers for a start. Then there's the fact that the people behind the scenes working on actually signing the players here are incompetent morons.

At City, everything there is geared to toward making sure Guardiola gets exactly what he needs at all times.

At United he'd have to succeed in spite of everything around him being a dysfunctional mess.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Would you? He wouldn't be given 300 million every year to spend on defenders and goalkeepers for a start. Then there's the fact that the people behind the scenes working on actually signing the players here are incompetent morons.

At City, everything there is geared to toward making sure Guardiola gets exactly what he needs at all times.

At United he'd have to succeed in spite of everything around him being a dysfunctional mess.

Every manager brought in since Ferguson has been up against it with the owners (and Woodward) when it comes to recruitment.

I’d probably go for him not being a fraud and having a better idea than most or all of the managers that we’ve had so far.. so yeah.

You’re right about him getting everything he needs at city. Whoever’s on charge at United is backed to get us in to the top 4 every year, it’s the owners that set the standards.

I think he'd be shit without messi but he did change football whether it for the good or bad, He's been an incredibly influential coach.

Much as I’d love to think it he’s far from a fraud, they will have a drop off when he goes IMO. I’d love him to leave tonight.

Of course he's a good manager

He's very good

But look at the teams he's managed..... Barcelona - which is like a fantasy football lineup

Bayern (didn't do well in Europe), but did very well as you'd expect in the league

City with all their money

All things adjusted for money and club status - he's good, but we can't ignore what he's had at his disposal.

I think he may leave this summer, don't know why...

If you have a club with an almost unlimited budget then he should the number one target. He'll turn them into a winning machine (albeit with struggles in the champions league).

He could never do what Fergie did at Aberdeen or even United though. And there's probably loads of managers from around the world that have done the same sort of thing that Fergie did at Aberdeen. So when the media start talking about him being the best ever, that's just giddy sycophantic %@#$&!s.

Seriously impressive manager, one of the greats. But not even close to best ever imo.

Due to the fact he's City manager, I'll choose to ignore his achievements and focus on stuff like this

https://twitter.com/StatmanDave/status/1398748909527252997?s=19

Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999

Due to the fact he's City manager, I'll choose to ignore his achievements and focus on stuff like this

https://twitter.com/StatmanDave/stat...527252997?s=19

Whoops!


Whoopsie!!

Originally Posted by Lok

Superb manager but massively f***ed up tonight.

If Ole did that we'd be going f***ing mental. The moment I saw the team sheet I knew they were in trouble. Crazy. Literally playing into Chelsea's hands.

Id say ole basically did the same thing. Compromised the structure of the team because he bottled leaving out [sterling/rashford]. Should have played [fernandinho/Matic] and put [gundogan/pogba] further forward.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

If you have a club with an almost unlimited budget then he should the number one target. He'll turn them into a winning machine (albeit with struggles in the champions league).

He could never do what Fergie did at Aberdeen or even United though. And there's probably loads of managers from around the world that have done the same sort of thing that Fergie did at Aberdeen. So when the media start talking about him being the best ever, that's just giddy sycophantic %@#$&!s.

Seriously impressive manager, one of the greats. But not even close to best ever imo.

Really, even the European success?