OFFICIAL: United v Bayern Munich thread.

Originally Posted by dunk

No it doesn't. I've been reading your bashing of Carrick for a good few weeks, whenever United struggle in anyway it's down to Carrick not having any 'balls', it's become quite infectious and a lot of people on here have followed suit.

I think you are wrong, but then I think we are expecting different things from him.

And he was playing well while we had 11 men on the pitch, nothing spectacular, but doing his job efficiently. Still not quite sure what he was supposed to do with Olic, or when he was given the ball in a shocking position surround by 3 Munich players, boot it out of play or something maybe. If Carrick is anonymous, it means he is doing his job well and without fuss. He is only noticeable when he makes a mistake, it seems.

I agree he isn't the all action, dynamic, player we all long to see in there, but he is very good at what he does and when put in the side that will provide him with options, he makes us tick.

I need to go out, so can't reply in full. But I don't agree with this. It's slightly patronising also to suggest that you notice things that others don't.

Carrick was anonymous in that he wasn't showing for the ball like he does when he is at his best. Our best football came from thrusting counter attacks, rather than through the midfield taking hold of the ball and dictating things, as happens when Carrick is at his best. His only 2 notable contributions were negative, and he was hooked as a result.

He HAD options the other night, so the comment amount him being at his best when provided with options clearly isn't that well thought out. Valencia and Nani to aim for in wide positions, Rooney - at least for the first half - always available for a pass. But even at 3-0 Carrick had been little more than a passenger.

P.S. I have praised Carrick when he has deserved it, but this season he has seldom done so. What do you want me to do? Toe the party line and post positive comments on his performances from the 06/07 season?

He has been shite, and I reserve my right to point that out if I so wish. There's a difference between that and the scapegoating of the likes of Berbatov who will always be blamed by some regardless of how well/badly he plays and regardless of the system he has been asked to play in.

A poor season in terms of starting badly, i.e the first month, and in some eyes ending badly. He has been good from October up until the last month, in which he has been up and down. This also includes an extended spell at CB where he fared admirably.

I wasn't suggesting I see what others don't, but Carrick's game and role is to keep the play moving and to cut off the opposition, when he at the top of his game he does both effortlessly with minimum fuss, so can be overlooked.

Your wrong about Wednesday, up until Rooney losing mobility he was playing through the BM midfield and played a couple of wonderful balls out to Nani and Valencia, linking up well with Fletcher and Rooney, he also did a fantastic job defensively throughout the first half. I think it's fair to say that the team as whole struggled once Rooney started to go lame and we went down to 10 men. His options dwindled once BM knew Rooney was struggling and the midfield suddenly became a lot harder to get through as a result.

You have obviously decided Carrick needs getting shut of and are looking for the negatives, so in you eyes he has done enough to deserve the calls for his sale and extraction from the team, fair enough. To me, he needs support, his form will return and there are plenty of years left in him now. He has definitely done enough over his time at United, consistently, to deserve the opportunity to at least fight for his place.

over rated cause he is english

Originally Posted by rebelcountyred

over rated cause he is english

As opposed to underrated cause he is Irish?

Originally Posted by dunk

As opposed to underrated cause he is Irish?

if he were irish we would be in agreement, he is a bottler.

Originally Posted by rebelcountyred

if he were irish we would be in agreement, he is a bottler.

Originally Posted by dunk

And he was playing well while we had 11 men on the pitch, nothing spectacular, but doing his job efficiently.

Yeah, then he cost us the first goal being a complete shithouse....

been a big fan of Carrick since he arrived but he's very average of over a year now. Its more than a dip in his form, there had been some excellent performances i that time but he hasn't matched the consistency he had in the 3 years previous.

Originally Posted by Firswood Red

been a big fan of Carrick since he arrived but he's very average of over a year now. Its more than a dip in his form, there had been some excellent performances i that time but he hasn't matched the consistency he had in the 3 years previous.

that's pretty much it. vds and paddy aside, he was possibly our most consistent player for quite a time. it's worrying that his inconsistency seems to be increasing.

It seems more the fact that Scholes can't be constantly passing and moving anymore off the ball to receive it back again, giving our players relatively simple out balls and retaining possession. Which has meant Carrick's expected to do more than he had to say 2-3 seasons ago, particularly in the bigger games. He doesn't seem to be mentally capable of it though, at least so far.

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's pretty much it. vds and paddy aside, he was possibly our most consistent player for quite a time. it's worrying that his inconsistency seems to be increasing.

very worrying, can't see Fergie getting though.

Originally Posted by The taste of...

However the one glaring thing that could have changed the tie - or kept it won to be more exact, was SAF subbing Rafael after the yellow.

fergie should have subbed rooney after 20 minutes.

of course, blaming the ref or fergie or bad luck or carrick is (although I am not happy with any of them) not really the issue. form and luck you can't do much about.

we £#%&!ed up because neville g handled and because rafael rightly got booked for a petulant kick and a ridiculous cynical tug - all of those were totally within our control. without that, bayern would have been £#%&!ing nowhere in that tie. they were shit going forward. even when we defended for a half, they were still shit and one wonder strike doesn't change that. we gifted them three goals.

incidentally, if we'd had a midfield of carrick, fletch and hargreaves, we would have won the european cup last year, we'd still be in it now and we'd be 18 points clear at the top of the league.

Speaking of which, any news on Hargreaves? By what Fergie was saying the other week, by now he should be ready to play a bit part in the Blackburn game?

He didn't mention him today unless you count him saying "everyone else is fit" when saying Rooney was out. I get the feeling Fergie's not all that arsed about him any more, he's resigned to being without him and if he manages to come back some time before the end of his contract well then great.

Originally Posted by Terry Silver

Why not try the "he's part of a team that won 3 league titles" line?

99 league starts plus 21 as sub, in fact.

157 starts in all comps, plus 29 as sub.

3 league titles
1 european cup
1 world club cup
2 league cups

Yes, and?? He is *currently* playing probably the worst he ever has for us - and had an unmitigated holocaust on Wednesday

Time to move on. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if SAF has come to the same conclusion, whatever the Carrick apologists on here say.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Yes, and?? He is *currently* playing probably the worst he ever has for us - and had an unmitigated holocaust on Wednesday

Time to move on. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if SAF has come to the same conclusion, whatever the Carrick apologists on here say.

the point of the stats is that they go to the argument about his overall input. people suggest he hasn't developed at United, but the truth is more that United have developed with him at the club, and his role in all our success of late has been pivotal.

whether he's past his shelf life in Ferguson's opinion i don't know. he's clearly testing his patience to breaking point from the looks of it. players sometimes just stagnate. he should be running the show by now, but Scholes is still there.