10 Hag should be sacked tonight

Originally Posted by shenwen

Should be fired for that alone.

And I'm not sure Onana was "up for the Balon D'Or". He was named at #23 on a shortlist of 30 and received two points in total The winner got 462.

Don't split hairs

I've got sympathy with every manager post Ferie with the signings. If you listen to Moyes, he 'had' Kroos ready to sign but ended up with Fellaini at 5 to midnight on deadline day as a panic.

Like I've said, maybe next season we'll see proper, structured signings and no absolutely bat shit wastes of money.

The other "point" people keep using is that the managers struggle because of what they inherit so the "shit" signings coupled with the "shit" signings they make makes you wonder why every manager outside of Moyes has been most successful in their first seasons.

My point as it's always been is that the real reason is they've not been good enough managers to build on their first seasons. I don't know why that is so hard for people to understand or come to terms with. We know it takes a unique type of individual to manage this club and the reason we've only found two in a hundred years. There's no shame in that. Is Ten Hag a bad manager? Clearly not and I'm pretty sure he'll go back to Ajax and be successful again. Is he good enough to manage United? Clearly not but that's not because of "shit" signings.

Originally Posted by believe

The other "point" people keep using is that the managers struggle because of what they inherit so the "shit" signings coupled with the "shit" signings they make makes you wonder why every manager outside of Moyes has been most successful in their first seasons.

My point as it's always been is that the real reason is they've not been good enough managers to build on their first seasons. I don't know why that is so hard for people to understand or come to terms with. We know it takes a unique type of individual to manage this club and the reason we've only found two in a hundred years. There's no shame in that. Is Ten Hag a bad manager? Clearly not and I'm pretty sure he'll go back to Ajax and be successful again. Is he good enough to manage United? Clearly not but that's not because of "shit" signings.

Luckily, I've not said that, at all. He's not good enough.

I'm not sure how you can ignore the circus that is our board/scouts/transfer negotiators though. I'm not sure any manager, including Pep, could've come in after Ferguson, worked under the Glazers and got every transfer right. Unless you're saying the Glazers and Co are blameless with the transfers?

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Luckily, I've not said that, at all. He's not good enough.

I'm not sure how you can ignore the circus that is our board/scouts/transfer negotiators though. I'm not sure any manager, including Pep, could've come in after Ferguson, worked under the Glazers and got every transfer right. Unless you're saying the Glazers and Co are blameless with the transfers?

You've said he is plenty of times

That's exactly what I'm saying and what I've been saying since day one. The only problem the board have brought to the table is the values from what I can gather and quite frankly I couldn't give a £#%&! what they paid for anyone and even then there;s probably only Antony and Maquire that we overly paid for when we could have had them cheaper.

Van Gaal got the players he wanted. We missed out on some because either a) they didn't want to come or b)we're a club that works within FFP rules. Same for Mourinho, same for Ole, same for Ten Hag.

Originally Posted by believe

You've said he is plenty of times

That's exactly what I'm saying and what I've been saying since day one. The only problem the board have brought to the table is the values from what I can gather and quite frankly I couldn't give a £#%&! what they paid for anyone and even then there;s probably only Antony and Maquire that we overly paid for when we could have had them cheaper.

Van Gaal got the players he wanted. We missed out on some because either a) they didn't want to come or b)we're a club that works within FFP rules. Same for Mourinho, same for Ole, same for Ten Hag.

No it isn't This isn't "The guy just isn't good enough for United!" is it?

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

No it isn't This isn't "The guy just isn't good enough for United!" is it?

Absolutely no idea what that is relating to in this conversation

Unless you're saying the Glazers and Co are blameless with the transfers?

That's exactly what I'm saying

Originally Posted by believe

Absolutely no idea what that is relating to in this conversation

Ah, my mistake.

I thought you were saying you had EtH pegged as "not good enough" from day 1.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Ah, my mistake.

I thought you were saying you had EtH pegged as "not good enough" from day 1.

Why would I, I knew absolutely nothing about him. I do now though.

My view on the ownership might be a simplistic one but it's my view. I didn't care about Edwards or Gill and I won't care about INEOS. All I know is that over the last ten years we've had a better squad of players than more than 90% of the teams we've faced yet despite most teams we face who would swap squads in a heartbeat have managed to find us out at some point. Now it seems like a weekly basis and there's only one person to blame for that.

Originally Posted by believe

Why would I, I knew absolutely nothing about him. I do now though.

My view on the ownership might be a simplistic one but it's my view. I didn't care about Edwards or Gill and I won't care about INEOS. All I know is that over the last ten years we've had a better squad of players than more than 90% of the teams we've faced yet despite most teams we face who would swap squads in a heartbeat have managed to find us out at some point. Now it seems like a weekly basis and there's only one person to blame for that.

It is simplistic, pal. Ludicrous too. No sports team in the world, in any domain has the manager at the helm and absolute bedlam behind the scenes and the team does well. Put Pep in with the Glazers - do you think he'd have lasted more than a season before leaving? Or do you think he's have restored us DESPITE them?

EtH isn't good enough imo but, you just can't ignore the mitigation. The Glazers (and staff) have £#%&!ed every coach at every turn at some point. And not caring what INEOS do when they're now, literally, the last hope we have of getting back to where we belong

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

It is simplistic, pal. Ludicrous too. No sports team in the world, in any domain has the manager at the helm and absolute bedlam behind the scenes and the team does well. Put Pep in with the Glazers - do you think he'd have lasted more than a season before leaving? Or do you think he's have restored us DESPITE them?

EtH isn't good enough imo but, you just can't ignore the mitigation. The Glazers (and staff) have £#%&!ed every coach at every turn at some point. And not caring what INEOS do when they're now, literally, the last hope we have of getting back to where we belong

Ferguson won four titles and a European Cup under the Glazers

I also truly believe that if Mourinho had come in straight after Ferguson, he'd have won us a title. That's the biggest £#%&! up to date IMO. So yes I reckon if Pep had come in he'd have managed it even with the shitshow above him.

Originally Posted by believe

Ferguson won four titles and a European Cup under the Glazers

I also truly believe that if Mourinho had come in straight after Ferguson, he'd have won us a title. That's the biggest £#%&! up to date IMO. So yes I reckon if Pep had come in he'd have managed it even with the shitshow above him.

You've just admitted it's a shitshow but then say you don't care who owns us?

You do realise the owners are responsible for the infrastructure of the club and the personnel within it?

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

You've just admitted it's a shitshow but then say you don't care who owns us?

You do realise the owners are responsible for the infrastructure of the club and the personnel within it?

I meant to say "shitshow" hth

Originally Posted by believe

I meant to say "shitshow" hth

Ok fair enough. Absolutely blows my mind that someone who has run multiple (?) businesses thinks the ownership/leadership of that business has no bearing on the performance of the organisation itself.

Fergie was, as we all know, a complete one off in history. An anomaly. And even he struggled with the @#%&!s above, wringing every last drop out of the likes of obertan, owen, valencia and every other player he had to make do with.

You're in dreamland if you think we'd find a manager who'd be consistently successful with the way this club has been run. Hopefully that way is now changing.

Originally Posted by believe

Ferguson won four titles and a European Cup under the Glazers

I also truly believe that if Mourinho had come in straight after Ferguson, he'd have won us a title. That's the biggest £#%&! up to date IMO. So yes I reckon if Pep had come in he'd have managed it even with the shitshow above him.

Believe, who do you think is chiefly responsible for Manchester City doing a complete 180° turn as a club since 2009?

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Ok fair enough. Absolutely blows my mind that someone who has run multiple (?) businesses thinks the ownership/leadership of that business has no bearing on the performance of the organisation itself.

Fergie was, as we all know, a complete one off in history. An anomaly. And even he struggled with the @#%&!s above, wringing every last drop out of the likes of obertan, owen, valencia and every other player he had to make do with.

You're in dreamland if you think we'd find a manager who'd be consistently successful with the way this club has been run. Hopefully that way is now changing.

Believe it or not I haven't got round to comparing United to my cleaning company Now you mention it though, then no it didn't. As long as they had the tools they needed they were more than capable of doing their jobs. The key was getting the right manager(s) in place.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Believe, who do you think is chiefly responsible for Manchester City doing a complete 180° turn as a club since 2009?

It's a toughie.....

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Believe, who do you think is chiefly responsible for Manchester City doing a complete 180° turn as a club since 2009?

Financial clout from the new owners first and then Pep. We already had the financial clout, that's never changed.

Originally Posted by believe

Believe it or not I haven't got round to comparing United to my cleaning company Now you mention it though, then no it didn't. As long as they had the tools they needed they were more than capable of doing their jobs. The key was getting the right manager(s) in place.

But that's the entire point. The manager(s) haven't had the 'tools they needed'. We know this.


You honestly think guardiola would have delivered the same amount of trophies for us as he has for city?


No £#%&!ing chance.


Here's a better question: why did guardiola go in the first place? We were by far the bigger club with supposedly the same financial clout? Why did he go to city? Why didn't we go for him?

Originally Posted by believe

Financial clout from the new owners first and then Pep. We already had the financial clout, that's never changed.

Ighalo (free)

Weghorst (free)

Nope, never changed.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Ighalo (free)

Weghorst (free)

Nope, never changed.

99 Mark Bosmich Free
01 Laurent Blanc Free

Current cost of Uniteds squad 1.42 billion
Currrent cost of City's squad 1.03 billion

What's your point?