OFFICIAL:Manchester United v Southampton|Premier League|30.12.2017|17.30|BT Sports

Originally Posted by LFOD

and i'm saying with this bunch it won't matter a £#%&!ing bit. tin men the bunch. they aren't united quality and he isn't playing united football. so sack the manager but we'll still be stuck with loads of nothing players.

Get a manager with a way of playing and build a side around that style. And stick with it. If it doesn't work, get another manager of the same ilk. Build something.

There is no style and mishmash of players from four completely different managers.

That's what we're seeing now.

And Jose is not a rebuild manager

Originally Posted by Nelson

And yet, it is a surprise.

He's a narcissist, we all know that. But from a psychological perspective, he's not following the classic narcissistic behaviour pattern at all.

The depressive behaviour he's exhibiting, and seemingly transmitting to the team, would be understandable if he'd had to take a job at say, Leicester, or Stoke or West Brom. That would have been a calamitous blow to his narcissistic ego.

But he's been given one of the top 3/4 managerial jobs in football - the job he coveted most of all. He should be absolutely on fire, buzzing. That's what I expected and hoped from him.

I'm no Freud, but I know a bit about psychology, and I just don't understand what's caused this depression at all. He's been like this almost since he arrived, so it doesn't seem to be the City factor.

I wonder if he's never recovered from the humiliation of getting kicked out of Chelsea and ending up out of work for almost a year before he got the United job. I wonder if that finished him.

This behaviour was evident at Madrid and the second spell at Chelsea. He had some success at both, but the deterioration in terms of relationship with players and his general demenour was there. He has become increasingly embittered and resentful. When he won the title with Chelsea in 2015, his first press conference saw him aiming shots at Guardiola. After winning a title ffs.

Chelsea players chucking it in to the extent he was sacked in 16th place in December was ignored by many who clamoured for his appointment expecting the old Mourinho. That will only have served to increase his paranoia.

But since arriving he has constantly criticised everyone, from other managers, to LvG, to his own players and his own fans, at a rate even greater than before, and sought conflict where there was none as a way of inspiring them, perhaps because that previous man-management ability has dissolved. He feels it's the only way to stir them, and perhaps himself. It just doesn't work anymore.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

The player you're talking about was signed by him. As was Mkhityrayn. And then there's that big donkey we've decided to build our team and style around.... The rest, he has kept.

If they're not good enough, not working hard enough, then ok. Fair assessment. They are all players the manager has signed or kept in his 18 months.

Moyes was judged after 8 months. LVG judged after 18 months. This is Mourinhos side now. All it's plusses and flaws.

Exactly...

He's inherited a side built by 3 very different managers and we clearly can't off load 10+ players and replace them similar to how City have done

Like I said I can understand people having a moan about his system etc, but the total lack of effort being shown by number of players can't be layed at his feet IMO. Players with the quality of Pogba shouldn't have to have Mourinho motivating him to play well against shot like Bristol, Leicester, Southampton etc

Originally Posted by Clownbones

You seem surprised he hasn't changed. I'm not.

He was like this at Chelsea last time. That's the job he last had.

The further down his career he's gone, the more depressing he's been and less relevant he's been.

I'm just not a fan in terms of him being here and he's doing nothing to change that.

If you're not a fan Boners, fair enough, I respect your opinion. I'm just intrigued by his career arc and his accompanying psychology.

Love or loathe his playing style, he transformed a comatose Inter into CL winners and he ripped up records at Madrid at a time when Barca were the dominant club side in the world. And he took Chelsea to a title in his first season back there. Hardly a track record of progressive depression and irrelevance.

Something's triggered his current depression - either having to take the Chelsea job when he thought he was getting United in 2013, or getting kicked out of Chelsea and spending a year on the dole before he came here.

Whatever the reason though, where we are now with him is shocking and saddening. It's unsustainable, but another change of manager this season is horrific to contemplate for a club like United.

For the first time since Fergie retired I’m starting to think this status is not temporary. I just don’t know what the answer is.

Originally Posted by dragflick

Mkhi's performance today reminded of Di Maria's where he hit every cross into the f***ing stands. Awful today that lad. Should have been dragged off at half time and told to f*** off home/to the airport.

Get Mahrez signed on Monday morning and in the side for half 5 ffs. Need some c*** who can create something/beat a man.

100% agree. Mhiki wouldn’t get in my sons team playing like that. He’s absolutely shot - no idea why but whatever mou’s been trying with him, it isn’t working. But there’s too many players playing like that - points to a problem with the not so special one tbh.

Originally Posted by AK14

Exactly...

He's inherited a side built by 3 very different managers and we clearly can't off load 10+ players and replace them similar to how City have done

Like I said I can understand people having a moan about his system etc, but the total lack of effort being shown by number of players can't be layed at his feet IMO. Players with the quality of Pogba shouldn't have to have Mourinho motivating him to play well against shot like Bristol, Leicester, Southampton etc

Then maybe he's signed somebody who isn't mentally equipped for the club.

Perhaps the players aren't playing well and working hard becusee they have no faith in the manager.

Either way, it all comes back to the manager, lkke it would for any other club or manager. That's why he gets paid so much. Some of it is his fault, some of it isn't, it's his head on the block.

When players do work hard and do run through walls, we happily say It's becusee of the manager

Originally Posted by dragflick

Mkhi's performance today reminded of Di Maria's where he hit every cross into the £#%&!ing stands. Awful today that lad. Should have been dragged off at half time and told to £#%&! off home/to the airport.

Get Mahrez signed on Monday morning and in the side for half 5 ffs. Need some @#%&! who can create something/beat a man.

If Mahrez is the answer, I haven't a £#%&!ing clue what the question is.

We urgently need a leader in the middle of the park, someone who can sit alongside Matic and allow Pogba to move forward into areas where he can hurt teams.

We need full backs and we need a winger who can actually cross it. I like Rashford and Martial but neither are wingers.

We can sign Dybala and Griezmann and it wouldn't make a scrap of difference if we don't sort out the other positions first and change the way we approach games.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

This behaviour was evident at Madrid and the second spell at Chelsea. He had some success at both, but the deterioration in terms of relationship with players and his general demenour was there. He has become increasingly embittered and resentful. When he won the title with Chelsea in 2015, his first press conference saw him aiming shots at Guardiola. After winning a title ffs.

Chelsea players chucking it in to the extent he was sacked in 16th place in December was ignored by many who clamoured for his appointment expecting the old Mourinho. That will only have served to increase his paranoia.

But since arriving he has constantly criticised everyone, from other managers, to LvG, to his own players and his own fans, at a rate even greater than before, and sought conflict where there was none as a way of inspiring them, perhaps because that previous man-management ability has dissolved. He feels it's the only way to stir them, and perhaps himself. It just doesn't work anymore.

Interesting and thought-provoking reply, Siders. Thanks.

Thinking about it, maybe that's the answer - longer term, it's the comparison with Guardiola's success that's at the root of his depression.

Originally Posted by utd99

For the first time since Fergie retired I’m starting to think this status is not temporary. I just don’t know what the answer is.

To a large extent we - manager, players, fans - are in a collective funk because of city's absolutely ridiculous *barely credible* form this season.

So maybe the "answer" will be Pep being done for doping?

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Get a manager with a way of playing and build a side around that style. And stick with it. If it doesn't work, get another manager of the same ilk. Build something.

There is no style and mishmash of players from four completely different managers.

That's what we're seeing now.

And Jose is not a rebuild manager

so get rid of jose - he isn't playing united football - i get it , no style. we'd also be looking at shifting loads of players - and another rebuild in modern football. not again.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Get a manager with a way of playing and build a side around that style. And stick with it. If it doesn't work, get another manager of the same ilk. Build something.

There is no style and mishmash of players from four completely different managers.

That's what we're seeing now.

And Jose is not a rebuild manager

Yeah can understand what you're saying

The worry is the club haven't got a single clue when it comes to the football side and that's evident with how we've gone for three completely different managers since Fergie and I'm not confident that sort of thinking has ever entered their minds when picking a manager

When Mourinho goes we'll probably go for Pochettino or Giggs...

I'd much rather give Mou at least his three years and give him the opportunity to get shot of the shit @#%&!s the previous two managers have left us with tbh.

Originally Posted by AK14

Exactly...

He's inherited a side built by 3 very different managers and we clearly can't off load 10+ players and replace them similar to how City have done

Like I said I can understand people having a moan about his system etc, but the total lack of effort being shown by number of players can't be layed at his feet IMO. Players with the quality of Pogba shouldn't have to have Mourinho motivating him to play well against shot like Bristol, Leicester, Southampton etc

So the players no longer want to play for him and in his last job his team chucked an entire season to get rid of him. At what point do we wonder if it is Mourinho?

Give Mou a billion, let him get rid of an entire squad and build anew from scratch. Is the Mourinho we see now and we saw at Chelsea a man to inspire such faith?

the amount of rubbish we have in this squad is amazing, probabaly the biggest collection of shit @#%&!s in football today... We were evil today and yet we cannot even blame the likes of Smalling, Rojo, Fellaini, Herrera, Zlatan, Darmian who were not playing, it is a £#%&!ing mess,,, £#%&! knows how we get out of this................

Originally Posted by Lok

If Mahrez is the answer, I haven't a f***ing clue what the question is.

We urgently need a leader in the middle of the park, someone who can sit alongside Matic and allow Pogba to move forward into areas where he can hurt teams.

We need full backs and we need a winger who can actually cross it. I like Rashford and Martial but neither are wingers.

We can sign Dybala and Griezmann and it wouldn't make a scrap of difference if we don't sort out the other positions first and change the way we approach games.

yep all of this.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

100% agree. Mhiki wouldn’t get in my sons team playing like that. He’s absolutely shot - no idea why but whatever mou’s been trying with him, it isn’t working. But there’s too many players playing like that - points to a problem with the not so special one tbh.

It’s possible that the pressure he used to put on players to evoke a response, these days, with these players, just breaks them. This trend towards fragile psyches in all society, but football specifically, is undeniable. Maybe his methods just don’t work anymore.

Originally Posted by AK14

I'd much rather give Mou at least his three years and give him the opportunity to get shot of the shit c***s the previous two managers have left us with tbh.

Best way forward imo.

Originally Posted by dragflick

Get Mahrez signed on Monday

would be a great signing tbf

Originally Posted by Clownbones

Then maybe he's signed somebody who isn't mentally equipped for the club.

Perhaps the players aren't playing well and working hard becusee they have no faith in the manager.

Either way, it all comes back to the manager, lkke it would for any other club or manager. That's why he gets paid so much. Some of it is his fault, some of it isn't, it's his head on the block.

When players do work hard and do run through walls, we happily say It's becusee of the manager

Yeah, fair points

And I do think that we've signed some complete mentally weak @#%&! over the last few years. something Fergie was so good at was signing players who had the right mentally, but then it's easier to introduce players into a winning side like we had during his time

Originally Posted by Tiberian

So the players no longer want to play for him and in his last job his team chucked an entire season to get rid of him. At what point do we wonder if it is Mourinho?

Give Mou a billion, let him get rid of an entire squad and build anew from scratch. Is the Mourinho we see now and we saw at Chelsea a man to inspire such faith?

I get it, but can we keep doing this every two seasons?