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Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger
I know. Fergie didn't fit all those three pillars. In his first 3 years in the job his comments were similar to Moyes were when he joined United. From interviews and comments I recall - he was about winning at all costs. Didn't care if it's a boring 1-0 so long as we win. He'd be happy to use the offside trap and play negative defensive football to win etc. He was eventually educated into the United way of trying to win with style.
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I'm not sure where you're going with comparing Fergie to Moyes
With the attacking football I don't think it's about style. It's more about taking the game to the opponent, having a real go, taking a risk, etc. I only watched United since '88 but never once saw Fergie play negative/defensive.
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Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger
You missed out one very important aspect that both sir Matt and Fergie had and Keane hasn't yet. The one thing that separates the great managers from the others. People skills. Maybe if Keane read Dale Carnegie. Without it, Keane is more Bryan Robson and Graeme Souness than Alex Ferguson. Unless you don't think those two had all the characteristics you attributed to Keane above.
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I think Fergie's people skills are overstated. There are different sides to man-management. When it came to the motivational element for example, Fergie was a master. However, when it came to conflict resolution it was a case of Fergie's way or the highway – he was extremely hardline in that, which was part of keeping the control he coveted.
Even in his Aberdeen days his players lived in constant fear of his anger. There's a story where Fergie raged so much at one of his players for coming off injured that the player ended up punching Fergie, knocking him on his arse.
At United, Gary Neville told how Fergie gave him sleepless nights. Ronaldo told how Fergie made him cry and would swear and kick things around the dressing room in anger – the chairs, the water bottles. I guess that's how the boot found its way to Beckham's head, with Beckham describing Fergie as a "bully" for the way he was treated toward the end of his United career. And Fergie was a bully – to opposition managers, referees, the press, his own players.
Other well documented fall outs occurred with Strachan, Ince, Kanchelskis, Stam, Keane, Nistelrooy, Hargreaves, Rooney. Fergie could hold a grudge and would give players the silent treatment for weeks. So these people skills you're talking about, I'm not sure about that. It's no coincidence that Keane named Clough as the best manager he's worked under due to his "warmth" compared to Fergie's "coldness".
None of this is a criticism of Fergie – he just had a hardline way of dealing with his players and at the end of the day that served him well at United – it worked. But he wasn't ever on the level of Sir Matt, Clough or say, Ancelotti when it came to people skills and getting along with his players. Keano is the same as Fergie: a master motivator but also hardline and not one to back down on his views. It's another aspect where the two are the same.
“I think they are very much the same (Fergie and Keano). When you are that powerful, that enthusiastic, have that kind of temperament and that desire to always be the best, you can clash.”
~Peter Schmeichel
But for all that, there have been a far greater number of times where Fergie and Keano have got it right.
04-03-2017, 09:33 PM
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