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Unread 21-01-2010, 11:50 AM
El Chalten
 
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could we just not get all season ticket holders just not to go.

agree on a match, get it in the media domain, and hopefully canvas the fans to boycott.

at least you'll then know what kind of support you've got.

season tickets sales for next season is going to be very intersting, imo.

nft.
 
Unread 21-01-2010, 12:00 PM
BryanRobson'sLiver
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigMikeA
I can only go off what people I know are saying.

"The I told you so fact is always going to be there"

Why? As I said there's a perfectly valid argument which states if 3000-4000 hadn't abandoned old trafford we'd be in a much stronger position to protest. Anyone who says they know for sure that the club was £#%&!ed (i'm not talking about other reasons such as percieved lack of atmos at OT) is bullshitting because the figures simply were not there.

It's very very easy to say I told you so but that's not taking the high ground, the right thing for FC to do, both for the club and the fans, is to get right behind any action. I can't see why they wouldn't since as I'm told on a regular basis, "they're all reds" ?

Can I just qualify it with the fact I have no personal issue whatsoever with FC, as I said i'm a founding member, but if anyone who goes to FC says "£#%&! them they deserve it", they need a good shoeing.

Anyway can I move away from this argument back to ideas
That didn't come across right, its less the I told you so and more the fact that there are a lot of people who have been going an about this debt until they're blue in the face and got to the point a while back where they sort of gave up and felt despondent by the general apathy they encountered, yes all Anti Glazer action is good action but with them having their feet under the table now and I think shifting them is going to be a lot harder and more costly overall.

Also (and now also moving away from the argument) the added problem now is united fans will be desperately courting some foreign billionaire puppeteer to come along with his mega millions and use the club as his next play thing and that. Getting rid of the Glazers is a simple matter, everyone stop going. Okay its a simple matter to say rather than to do but as soon as the money dries up and they realise they are the cause of that they'll sell up in a flash. The difficult bit is getting the militant mentality to kick in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42ndstreet irregular
Again though why does the reason matter
It matters because if we don't learn from the mistakes made with the Glazers then the same thing could happen again. The next owner could come in and slowly start siphoning money out of the club but provided the team is winning on the pitch everyone goes back to being blinkered head in the sand types. If this backlash against the Glazers has one good effect it needs to be that we cannot be complacent in thinking just because the football is good then the club is in good health.
 
Unread 21-01-2010, 01:58 PM
TaylorMUFC
 
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I suggest having a "sit in" after one of the Saturday afternoon home games
 
Unread 21-01-2010, 02:36 PM
florentino ariza
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnitzel
Thing is, the debt as I understand it is not Uniteds its the controlling companys so boycotting purchases inside the ground, Shirt sales and is bound to happen inflated ticket prices only pushes us nearer a Leeds and or Portsmouth scenario.

Creating this sub forum now (how many years after the Glazers took over) and not having one since this forum was created, the trophies won and the "coincedence" that after the last debt announcement and our current (or seasons form) it has been now smacks of displeasure of results rather than immediate support.

Those thousands that went to FC which are now lambasted could of done with this support then.

My point and I love United is can we not speak with A Walsh and some of the other guys from FC, they never stopped loving United and have more experience of the fight than us now, its obviousley squeaky bum time.

No offence intended with what has happened in the past bit we need to get these few thousand lads and lasses on board.
let me caveat this up front and say this isn't a pop at Walsh et al in terms of effort

The problem around the time of the takeover though was that those people involved in the organisation of the opposition were woefully ill equipped in terms of skills and experience

Even amidst incredibly emotive times there was an inability to galvanize huge numbers of people

The sad truth also is that a far higher percentage of match goers than anticipated just weren't that bothered about the whole thing, many were totally unaware of the ramifications

There were lots of confrontational rhetoric flying around about extreme action but the campaign should not have been conducted in guerilla style and we genuinely had no legal recourse other than to outbid the @#%&!s

Defeatist? Maybe but i think realist is more accurate
 
Unread 21-01-2010, 03:20 PM
42ndstreet irregular
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanRobson'sLiver
It matters because if we don't learn from the mistakes made with the Glazers then the same thing could happen again. The next owner could come in and slowly start siphoning money out of the club but provided the team is winning on the pitch everyone goes back to being blinkered head in the sand types. If this backlash against the Glazers has one good effect it needs to be that we cannot be complacent in thinking just because the football is good then the club is in good health.
Then you educate people. You can't educate people without giving them chance to learn. It is and will be a slow process. What would you prefer? Get the Glazers out as soon as possible and regroup the United fan basis or sit there saying how better/ more knowlegable you are than the United population (which whether you are implying it or not, sounds to me like you are.) and complain about the motive of getting off their arses to get rid of the Glazers.

As I said before. We need as many United fans on our side. If we do or do not get taken over by another blood sucking leech then we will have fair weather fans amongst us. That will not change. But by giving up on them without giving people the chance to come around or by lambasting their reasons for joining the protest is short sighteness imo. By labelling a large portion of fellow United fans makes you no better than the people slagging off FCers. You are feeding the divide rather than trying to heal it.
 
Unread 21-01-2010, 08:45 PM
Bunker Buster
 
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Cheers for the sub forum.........

appreciated

still no net so lurk and that from phone and other peoples houses.

still active though good idea to get things in one place.....
 
Unread 22-01-2010, 11:54 AM
BarryX
 
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Unread 27-01-2010, 01:58 PM
schnitzel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigMikeA
A holier than thou approach, which if i may say so that post smacks a little bit of (intentional or not), is exactly the kind of stuff that's not gonna help


If FC fans start taking the moral high ground and basically saying "we told you so" it's utterly unhelpful, whatever point they may have.

Personally, I was a founder member of FC and went to a few games at the start before drifting back to United for the usual reasons. I did what I thought was best, as did thousands of others at the time.

It could also be argued if FC hadn't been set up, there'd be many thousands more inside OT now to make their voices heard as it was a large part of the 'hardcore' support that went.


But we have to stay away from the FC vs MUFC debate, it's just not constructive. Now is the time to come together and do something for the good of the club - if FC fans truly want MUFC to be the best it can for the future I don't they'll have any issue helping out. A bit of unity for a change would be £#%&!ing fantastic
Just for the record, I am not an FC fan, but know a lot of the people that went that route who I believe could be helpful at the moment.

I agree wholeheartedly United vs FC should not be an issue the ultimate goal is helping the Club we all love and as such should all pull in that direction.
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Child of Darkness
 
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The best Idea is the simplist one

DONT GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY

This involves doing nothing which is easy even for the apathetic 90% - how you mobilise them is easy

Start with yourself - dont go , don't renew , dont buy.

Tell all your United mates in a text your not going anymore cos of the debt situation as a protest and they are welcome to join you in the pub to watch it or at FC if you want live football. (most FC do both then you get two matches for one pass out and twice the ale)
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 02:00 PM
beersexchipsgravy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Child of Darkness
The best Idea is the simplist one

DONT GIVE HIM YOUR MONEY

This involves doing nothing which is easy even for the apathetic 90% - how you mobilise them is easy

Start with yourself - dont go , don't renew , dont buy.

Tell all your United mates in a text your not going anymore cos of the debt situation as a protest and they are welcome to join you in the pub to watch it or at FC if you want live football. (most FC do both then you get two matches for one pass out and twice the ale)
Agreed. I wrote on the facebook group thing that the ONLY way to get rid of Glazer is for there to be rows and rows of empty seats at OT and for people to stop buying merchandise. All I got was "it's easier said than done!".

£#%&! me. Is it really that hard to not spend money these days
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 02:46 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Why would I let some £#%&!ing yanks stop me going to Old Trafford?

I didn't agree to let them buy the club, and I didn't lend them the money to do it.

I just pay my ticket like I always did, and that will not change unless the club was ever taken over by someone I have a particular moral objection to. That doesn't include people with questionable financial motives because if it did I'd be boycotting virtually everything.

The money-lenders were bound to get their claws into United big-style sooner or later unless it got itself one of them £#%&!ing sugar-daddies.

Still don't see this as a "wait and see" pov. I see it as a simple case of you reap what you sow.

Ideas to get rid of the Glazers? Kill them. Or buy them out. Do it dressed in the 92-94 away kit if you like.
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 03:42 PM
Child of Darkness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
Why would I let some £#%&!ing yanks stop me going to Old Trafford?
I didn't agree to let them buy the club, and I didn't lend them the money to do it.

I just pay my ticket like I always did, and that will not change unless the club was ever taken over by someone I have a particular moral objection to. That doesn't include people with questionable financial motives because if it did I'd be boycotting virtually everything.

The money-lenders were bound to get their claws into United big-style sooner or later unless it got itself one of them £#%&!ing sugar-daddies.

Still don't see this as a "wait and see" pov. I see it as a simple case of you reap what you sow.

Ideas to get rid of the Glazers? Kill them. Or buy them out. Do it dressed in the 92-94 away kit if you like.
how about cos they have landed the club in 700 mil worth of debt and made it impossible to compete even with city (jesus wept)financially in the long run

In short they have £#%&!ed your club over good and proper. If thats not a reason enough for you then what is?

I don't know why you are even on this sub forum with an attitude like that .
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 04:44 PM
hopkins
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
I just pay my ticket like I always did,
Does the huge hike in ticket price not bother you?
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 06:58 PM
wonky no
 
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how much would it cost to give a4 green and gold (yellow) pieces of paper out to hold above heads in the stretford t2?
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 09:27 PM
Skag Trendy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanRobson'sLiver
no Audis, no Jaffa Cakes, no Pepsi, no Buweiser, no AIG etc.
ffs
 
Unread 28-01-2010, 11:22 PM
Rossi the Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky no
how much would it cost to give a4 green and gold (yellow) pieces of paper out to hold above heads in the stretford t2?
£#%&! me, you're turning it into 'the kop'!

 
Unread 29-01-2010, 01:02 AM
wonky no
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi the Red
£#%&! me, you're turning it into 'the kop'!

full of shit?

cheers
 
Unread 29-01-2010, 01:08 AM
Tumescent Throb
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Child of Darkness
how about cos they have landed the club in 700 mil worth of debt and made it impossible to compete even with city (jesus wept)financially in the long run

In short they have £#%&!ed your club over good and proper. If thats not a reason enough for you then what is?

I don't know why you are even on this sub forum with an attitude like that .
No. In the immediate present City have the raw financial power to compete with any team in the world for players. Nobody knows, not you or anybody else, about what the picture will look like in "the long term". In fact, even the boldest projections we currently have don't even stretch beyond the decade, and most people would accept that those projections are virtually guaranteed to require reassessing sooner rather than later.

Here's a question for you: how would you feel about having different owners, no debt and virtually the same transfer policy, youth policy, ticket pricing policy and success on the field as we currently have? In other words, do you object most strongly to the debt, or do you object most strongly to the owners making money out of United?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hopkins
Does the huge hike in ticket price not bother you?
Of course, I'd like them to be cheaper. I'd like more locals to be in the stadium. I'd like the stadium to be bigger with "safe standing". I'd like the stewards to not be @#%&!s. I'd like kick-off times not to be so often £#%&!ed around with. I'd like TV's to be binned off the concourses. I'd like to be able to buy a decent drink at a realistic price. I'd like the tannoy announcers and DJ's at every ground in the country to be shot and killed. I'd like Scholes and Giggs to be 10 years younger...
 
Unread 31-01-2010, 11:05 PM
schnitzel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by florentino ariza
let me caveat this up front and say this isn't a pop at Walsh et al in terms of effort
[SIZE="5"]
The problem around the time of the takeover though was that those people involved in the organisation of the opposition were woefully ill equipped in terms of skills and experience


Even amidst incredibly emotive times there was an inability to galvanize huge numbers of people

The sad truth also is that a far higher percentage of match goers than anticipated just weren't that bothered about the whole thing, many were totally unaware of the ramifications

There were lots of confrontational rhetoric flying around about extreme action but the campaign should not have been conducted in guerilla style and we genuinely had no legal recourse other than to outbid the @#%&!s

Defeatist? Maybe but i think realist is more accurate
Again not trying to cause an argument but at that time "these people" where all the ones that had the experience of the failed Sky bid, the reason they didnt get any support is not down to any contribution of guerilla style tactics, they just didnt have any support fullstop as you have pointed out later, and it will be the same problem now .this was and always will be ( honestly try and get the support, all those that are wearing gold and Green to do something constructive) we are stil going to face that same problem

.People have paid money for entertainment the argument for this has been since...forever, your not going to get a @#%&! who has payed 500 quid for a season ticket to give it up or not renew. these unfortunateley are the majority of the fans around OT at the moment, even if they do not renew that waiting list of people are not readily going to agree to not accept the season ticket offer because someone refused on principal.

This is the same scenario that faced all those who went to FC all those fans who followed United Loyally for more years spent more money and time than half the people here now who are considered real fans cos they stuck behind United.

What happens if this campaign fails, you all swallow your pride and keep paying your money to Malcom sing the songs of rebellion when youve paid at the gate..

I £#%&!ing hope that the people scheming in London can offer a way out.
 
Unread 01-02-2010, 10:22 AM
redloner
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigMikeA
It could also be argued if FC hadn't been set up, there'd be many thousands more inside OT now to make their voices heard as it was a large part of the 'hardcore' support that went
I'm pretty sure (as it was the same for me) most people said they would stop going to OT if the Glazers took over and made that decision between May 12 and May 16 (Chelsea at home).

So I was gone, whether the destination was FC or B&Q mattered little.

If it came to a demonstration of the will of the fans, would the ST holders who intend to renew put off renewing until a set date, like 1 July? If half did this it would take around £20m out of the income for the year which ends on 30 June...
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