United "bemused" by Neville Woodward criticism

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Of course they're bemused, Ed is the Glazers' golden boy.

He was at Merrill Lynch during the take over and basically facilitated the Glazer's buying the club in the first place, that's how he ended up with the job.

They absolutely love him, as long as they're in charge Woodward is going nowhere. As far as they're concerned they look at the balance sheets and the share prices and conclude he's doing a fantastic job.

He's super switched on; nqat. He just needs more football men around him, if indeed the intention of the club is to progress from a footballing perspective. Woodward isn't the issue. He is CEO so will always gets heat but his commercial record is unparalleled in the football world.

Mourinho is the main issue here and the lack of foresight from the club. If they sort each of those aspects, United will be back before long.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Think we may stumble upon Allegri. Got a bad feeling Poch will end up in Madrid and if it comes down to a Poch-lite or Allegri (hopefully fresh from sparing us a city CL victory) have every faith that Ed would abandon his lifelong dream of instilling a footballing philosophy at M16 and go for a flavour of the month.

Stumble upon one of the best managers in Europe

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

He's super switched on; nqat. He just needs more football men around him, if indeed the intention of the club is to progress from a footballing perspective. Woodward isn't the issue. He is CEO so will always gets heat but his commercial record is unparalleled in the football world.

Mourinho is the main issue here and the lack of foresight from the club. If they sort each of those aspects, United will be back before long.



Stumble upon one of the best managers in Europe

May shock you to learn you’ve missed the point. Most people can see Allegri is a top manager, Woodward is not among them. We want Poch and could end up with someone completely different, remind me how that’s worked out these last five years.

hadn't actually seen it

https://youtu.be/LSu8Vl2JUKw

Originally Posted by armchair

hadn't actually seen it

https://youtu.be/LSu8Vl2JUKw

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...4&postcount=13

I don't fully understand Neville.

He says he wants a structure and "serious football people" at the club, but what's the point if apparently you have to let the manager decide everything. If "you can't go halfway with it" and have to give the manager total power, then you don't really need that structure

He's stuck in the past. Giving a manager a contract doesn't oblige a club to let him have whatever he wants. The issue here is that they're briefing that they totally disagree with his vision and values. That's what undermines him, not refusing to buy Harry Maguire.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I don't fully understand Neville.

He says he wants a structure and "serious football people" at the club, but what's the point if apparently you have to let the manager decide everything. If "you can't go halfway with it" and have to give the manager total power, then you don't really need that structure

He's stuck in the past. Giving a manager a contract doesn't oblige a club to let him have whatever he wants. The issue here is that they're briefing that they totally disagree with his vision and values. That's what undermines him, not refusing to buy Harry Maguire.

Neville, like the rest of us really, wants another Freggle. It's never going to happen though and I think Nev in his darkest moments must know this. He was one of the last of a dying breed, he often said so in his last days. Wenger was the last one and who wants to be him now?

Right now United's vision and values have been distorted and traduced so much that they're pretty much a blank slate. We've all got our ideas about what the club should look like - and Mourinho sure as £#%&! isn't it - but what is?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I don't fully understand Neville.

He says he wants a structure and "serious football people" at the club, but what's the point if apparently you have to let the manager decide everything. If "you can't go halfway with it" and have to give the manager total power, then you don't really need that structure

He's stuck in the past. Giving a manager a contract doesn't oblige a club to let him have whatever he wants. The issue here is that they're briefing that they totally disagree with his vision and values. That's what undermines him, not refusing to buy Harry Maguire.

He's saying put that system in place and stay away from managers incompatible with the structure and direction of the club.

I think Neville thinks what's happened is that Ed has given Jose a new contract then pretty quickly decided he wants to go in a completely different direction.

That remains to be seen. I think the Glazers like things the way they are and want a manager who accepts the restrictions they place on Ed. Moyes was that man - prepped by Freg. Louis was that men - loved developing young players. Mou is not that man. Poch probably is.

Originally Posted by Cream

He's saying put that system in place and stay away from managers incompatible with the structure and direction of the club.

I think Neville thinks what's happened is that Ed has given Jose a new contract then pretty quickly decided he wants to go in a completely different direction.

That remains to be seen. I think the Glazers like things the way they are and want a manager who accepts the restrictions they place on Ed. Moyes was that man - prepped by Freg. Louis was that men - loved developing young players. Mou is not that man. Poch probably is.

Well he wants Mourinho backed until the end of his contract. But he also wants that structure. Seems a bit all over the place. His views on the moral aspect of hiring and "backing" managers feels a bit naive tbh. United can give Mourinho a new contract and then tell him they're not buying Harry Maguire. Extending his deal doesn't oblige you to give him total control.

What doesn't help is Mou @#%&!ing off all his existing players to the media in the meantime and the club briefing every five minutes that they don't really believe in his way of doing things. Mourinho and Woodward are running the place into the ground between them.

I don't get the notion Woodward "knows nothing about football". The guy attends the games, he's observed training sessions, he's put forth a restructuring of the academy, he negotiates with other clubs and agents all the time. He knows more about the inner workings of football than most people. Moreover the reports that suggest he vetoed Mourinho's targets not because of money but because of the profiles of the players suggests so too. The reports that we'd spend big on young and highly regarded talents like Pulisic rather than older and seasoned players like Perisic and Willian who don't have long term upside. That shows he is interested in the long term future of the club. I'm not absolving him of blame because he has made some truly shocking decisions but the biggest problem that has seen United fall into this quagmire is the club didn't fix the roof when the sun was shining. The three managers we've had since - one was a guy who did relatively well on a shoe-string budget, the other was an iconic coach whose best years were behind him and the current guy was a desperate move in the hope he'd rekindle his magic but his methods and attitude is why the club didn't touch him in 2013.

Woodward probably wants Pochettino more than anyone else. Pochettino has proven himself as a brilliant coach who develops young players, keeps things low-key to the media and cultivated a fantastic environment after taking over a side that was aging and had rotten characters. He finishes above sides with far more financial capabilities and if he gets top four without spending a single penny this season the Glazers will see him as the Messiah.

Originally Posted by Buck

I don't get the notion Woodward "knows nothing about football". The guy attends the games, he's observed training sessions, he's put forth a restructuring of the academy, he negotiates with other clubs and agents all the time. He knows more about the inner workings of football than most people. Moreover the reports that suggest he vetoed Mourinho's targets not because of money but because of the profiles of the players suggests so too. The reports that we'd spend big on young and highly regarded talents like Pulisic rather than older and seasoned players like Perisic and Willian who don't have long term upside. That shows he is interested in the long term future of the club. I'm not absolving him of blame because he has made some truly shocking decisions but the biggest problem that has seen United fall into this quagmire is the club didn't fix the roof when the sun was shining. The three managers we've had since - one was a guy who did relatively well on a shoe-string budget, the other was an iconic coach whose best years were behind him and the current guy was a desperate move in the hope he'd rekindle his magic but his methods and attitude is why the club didn't touch him in 2013.

Woodward probably wants Pochettino more than anyone else. Pochettino has proven himself as a brilliant coach who develops young players, keeps things low-key to the media and cultivated a fantastic environment after taking over a side that was aging and had rotten characters. He finishes above sides with far more financial capabilities and if he gets top four without spending a single penny this season the Glazers will see him as the Messiah.

Originally Posted by Buck

I don't get the notion Woodward "knows nothing about football". The guy attends the games, he's observed training sessions, he's put forth a restructuring of the academy, he negotiates with other clubs and agents all the time. He knows more about the inner workings of football than most people. Moreover the reports that suggest he vetoed Mourinho's targets not because of money but because of the profiles of the players suggests so too. The reports that we'd spend big on young and highly regarded talents like Pulisic rather than older and seasoned players like Perisic and Willian who don't have long term upside. That shows he is interested in the long term future of the club. I'm not absolving him of blame because he has made some truly shocking decisions but the biggest problem that has seen United fall into this quagmire is the club didn't fix the roof when the sun was shining. The three managers we've had since - one was a guy who did relatively well on a shoe-string budget, the other was an iconic coach whose best years were behind him and the current guy was a desperate move in the hope he'd rekindle his magic but his methods and attitude is why the club didn't touch him in 2013.

Woodward probably wants Pochettino more than anyone else. Pochettino has proven himself as a brilliant coach who develops young players, keeps things low-key to the media and cultivated a fantastic environment after taking over a side that was aging and had rotten characters. He finishes above sides with far more financial capabilities and if he gets top four without spending a single penny this season the Glazers will see him as the Messiah.

I suppose the notion comes from him being a hedge fund manager involved in the leveraged buy out of a football club.

Oh, and he’s lurched between footballing styles of safe Scottish and dull, to possession at all costs to a manic depressive defend at all costs - all different styles with seemingly no continuity or plan.

Oh and his first major transfer act was landing the marquee signing that was Fellaini before giving 5 years to Rooney who was at the end of his career. Then. Falcao, di Maria - all trophy signings but utterly shit.

He’s now refusing to support the manager but still employing that manager.

That’s all I have time for but to me suggests that he might not be the best qualified ceo of mufc.

Originally Posted by Buck

I don't get the notion Woodward "knows nothing about football". The guy attends the games, he's observed training sessions, he's put forth a restructuring of the academy, he negotiates with other clubs and agents all the time. He knows more about the inner workings of football than most people. Moreover the reports that suggest he vetoed Mourinho's targets not because of money but because of the profiles of the players suggests so too. The reports that we'd spend big on young and highly regarded talents like Pulisic rather than older and seasoned players like Perisic and Willian who don't have long term upside. That shows he is interested in the long term future of the club. I'm not absolving him of blame because he has made some truly shocking decisions but the biggest problem that has seen United fall into this quagmire is the club didn't fix the roof when the sun was shining. The three managers we've had since - one was a guy who did relatively well on a shoe-string budget, the other was an iconic coach whose best years were behind him and the current guy was a desperate move in the hope he'd rekindle his magic but his methods and attitude is why the club didn't touch him in 2013.

Woodward probably wants Pochettino more than anyone else. Pochettino has proven himself as a brilliant coach who develops young players, keeps things low-key to the media and cultivated a fantastic environment after taking over a side that was aging and had rotten characters. He finishes above sides with far more financial capabilities and if he gets top four without spending a single penny this season the Glazers will see him as the Messiah.

Or is interested in resale value and commercial profitability of signings. Pulisic will be the first football superstar in the States.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Or is interested in resale value and commercial profitability of signings. Pulisic will be the first football superstar in the States.

Genuinely assumed he was Croatian.

Originally Posted by windy waffles

Genuinely assumed he was Croatian.

Croatian yank pal. Has both passports. You're on fire atm.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Croatian yank pal. Has both passports. You're on fire atm.

Enjoy it, it won't last long.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I suppose the notion comes from him being a hedge fund manager involved in the leveraged buy out of a football club.

Oh, and he’s lurched between footballing styles of safe Scottish and dull, to possession at all costs to a manic depressive defend at all costs - all different styles with seemingly no continuity or plan.

Oh and his first major transfer act was landing the marquee signing that was Fellaini before giving 5 years to Rooney who was at the end of his career. Then. Falcao, di Maria - all trophy signings but utterly shit.

He’s now refusing to support the manager but still employing that manager.

That’s all I have time for but to me suggests that he might not be the best qualified ceo of mufc.

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...6&postcount=36

Yep

Great at the commercial side of things but has proven to be out of his depth running the football side of things.

He needs to hand over the rains to people that know what they’re doing. Let them build a footballing structure and if that means it doesn’t involve Mou and means we get someone who shares the same philosophise then so be it.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well he wants Mourinho backed until the end of his contract. But he also wants that structure. Seems a bit all over the place. His views on the moral aspect of hiring and "backing" managers feels a bit naive tbh. United can give Mourinho a new contract and then tell him they're not buying Harry Maguire. Extending his deal doesn't oblige you to give him total control.

What doesn't help is Mou @#%&!ing off all his existing players to the media in the meantime and the club briefing every five minutes that they don't really believe in his way of doing things. Mourinho and Woodward are running the place into the ground between them.

It might look like Neville is holding two incompatible positions, but he isn’t.

Ed is. Or maybe he isn’t. Maybe when he extended Mou’s contract he did so fully aware that he wouldn’t be backing him in the market. Keep a decent manager in place while he creates a completely different structure. Better than Big Sam as interim.

Or maybe the £#%&!ing flake is just winging it as per.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Or is interested in resale value and commercial profitability of signings. Pulisic will be the first football superstar in the States.

Aren't they appointing Moyes to the national team job?

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

I suppose the notion comes from him being a hedge fund manager involved in the leveraged buy out of a football club.

Oh, and he’s lurched between footballing styles of safe Scottish and dull, to possession at all costs to a manic depressive defend at all costs - all different styles with seemingly no continuity or plan.

Oh and his first major transfer act was landing the marquee signing that was Fellaini before giving 5 years to Rooney who was at the end of his career. Then. Falcao, di Maria - all trophy signings but utterly shit.

He’s now refusing to support the manager but still employing that manager.

That’s all I have time for but to me suggests that he might not be the best qualified ceo of mufc.

David Gill oversaw the takeover, showed contempt for the supporters with his hypocrisy ("debt is the road to ruin" to defending them since he got to keep his job). And was hanging on the coattails of Fergie. The fact he walked out the door with Fergie has given some sections of our supporters a tainted image of how important he was.

Woodward is obviously a very flawed CEO. But the CEO's reputation is dependent on the managers performance. Our managers have spent about £700m since Fergie left and that's still not enough? Mourinho has spent almost £400m. If Woodward didn't veto Perisic in Summer 2017 we probably wouldn't have signed Sanchez in January 2018. At the time of Sanchez signing no one was thinking "wish we got Perisic instead". Unfortunately Sanchez has been shit but that's the responsibility of the manager.

I'll agree that the club has engaged in very muddled thinking. Woodward didn't hire Moyes but dispensed with him after less than a year. We all thought Moyes was going to be a brief accident we'd look back on in twenty years and joke about. Instead it's carried on. But perhaps Mourinho will be the last roll of the dice in terms of hoping for instant reward and when he goes the contingency plan will be ready for a long term solution. A DoF coming in is one. A younger manager hired not necessary on CV history dating back years but more recent. In other words if it's ok for Barcelona to promote Guardiola, Madrid to promote Zidane and Bayern to hire Niko Kovac who came from the 8th place team in Germany and hadn't won a trophy when Bayern announced it (his last game at Frankfurt was beating Bayern in the cup final), why can't we show some imagination? Poch is my ideal pick but there are others.

And finally an example that a change of approach can work - FSG were despised for their money-ball strategy by Liverpool fans for most of their tenure but in the last two summers they've gone massive because the manager has shown enough to them to deserve that sort of backing. Of course if Klopp now doesn't win a trophy he will deserve every bit of criticism but from a week by week judgement over the season, they might still have more reason to enjoy the season because of the style and development of their players. A silver pot in May will decide success / failure but for supporters we don't lift the trophies and enjoyment / endurement is more than whether we'll win a trophy in ten months time. Mourinho gives me little to look forward to from the way his team plays to his attitude and that's largely independent from the CEO.

Originally Posted by Buck

David Gill oversaw the takeover, showed contempt for the supporters with his hypocrisy ("debt is the road to ruin" to defending them since he got to keep his job). And was hanging on the coattails of Fergie. The fact he walked out the door with Fergie has given some sections of our supporters a tainted image of how important he was.

Woodward is obviously a very flawed CEO. But the CEO's reputation is dependent on the managers performance. Our managers have spent about £700m since Fergie left and that's still not enough? Mourinho has spent almost £400m. If Woodward didn't veto Perisic in Summer 2017 we probably wouldn't have signed Sanchez in January 2018. At the time of Sanchez signing no one was thinking "wish we got Perisic instead". Unfortunately Sanchez has been shit but that's the responsibility of the manager.

I'll agree that the club has engaged in very muddled thinking. Woodward didn't hire Moyes but dispensed with him after less than a year. We all thought Moyes was going to be a brief accident we'd look back on in twenty years and joke about. Instead it's carried on. But perhaps Mourinho will be the last roll of the dice in terms of hoping for instant reward and when he goes the contingency plan will be ready for a long term solution. A DoF coming in is one. A younger manager hired not necessary on CV history dating back years but more recent. In other words if it's ok for Barcelona to promote Guardiola, Madrid to promote Zidane and Bayern to hire Niko Kovac who came from the 8th place team in Germany and hadn't won a trophy when Bayern announced it (his last game at Frankfurt was beating Bayern in the cup final), why can't we show some imagination? Poch is my ideal pick but there are others.

And finally an example that a change of approach can work - FSG were despised for their money-ball strategy by Liverpool fans for most of their tenure but in the last two summers they've gone massive because the manager has shown enough to them to deserve that sort of backing. Of course if Klopp now doesn't win a trophy he will deserve every bit of criticism but from a week by week judgement over the season, they might still have more reason to enjoy the season because of the style and development of their players. A silver pot in May will decide success / failure but for supporters we don't lift the trophies and enjoyment / endurement is more than whether we'll win a trophy in ten months time. Mourinho gives me little to look forward to from the way his team plays to his attitude and that's largely independent from the CEO.

Good post.

One thing I would say is you named three clubs in Madrid, Barca and Bayern who have football people above the head coach and a clear structure to the footballing side of the club (maybe less so Madrid tbf?)

We need football people at boardroom level and a structure in place first and foremost imo. Then we can get a manager in place that shares the vision we want to take the club in. If that’s Pochettino then so be it, but get the structure in place first.