At what point did YOU realise that Ole wasn't up to it?

Last night was icing on the shitty cake. It's not just on Ole though. It's on some of the players, the backroom staff and those at the top of the club as well. It's a combination of utter shite.

I don't buy into a lot of the shite that gets written. "Utterly clueless", "Doesn't know what he's doing", "he's been lucky" etc etc. Bullshit. It the first time we've finished in the Champions League places for two seasons on the trot since Fergie retired. Absolutely shocking that that's the case to begin with, but when managers like LVG and Mourinho can't do that, and Ole walzes in and does it in his first two full seasons, the whole "utterly clueless" line doesn't wash. Not only that, but other than Mourinho's second place finish, third and then second are also our best finishes in the league since Fergie retired . There's also the unbeaten away record, record against Guardiola etc. And, no, that doesn't win you cups, but that's not the point I'm making.

Maybe the Europa League Final was a sliding doors moment. It felt like we were on the cusp of something, either something awful or something great. Maybe losing that final was the catalyst for it to go to shit. Something has gone seriously wrong, players that looked like they were the best in the league in their respective positions last season have gone to utter utter shite. And the weird thing is, barely anything has changed. Same manager and coaches, night and day performances. Maybe that set piece coach needs booting out

On top of the poor start to the season, and the shit from last weekend and last night, there were signs that he's just a weak manager, and that's just never going to cut it here. Pogba is going to throw anyone under the bus that he needs to, he's done it before. Never mind the shit him and his agent have said before, the constant lackluster performances and the reluctance to sign a new deal. After Pogba's comments last week it was a perfect opportunity for Ole to show the world that he's not a weak manager. £#%&! him off from the squad (preferably the club), do something to prove that you're not just a mate to all the players and you're the boss. Don't just drop him for 60 minutes and then sub him on for a couple of weeks, because he's a snake and he clearly doesn't give a shit. Either it's because Ole doesn't want to rock the boat, or because he's being told that Pogba needs to feature in the team. Either way, it's a weakness we can't afford in what should be a team of strong characters.

Even if the club doesn't sack him and he carries on, if he can't tell players that don't perform, are running out their contract to leave on a free and acting like a #@&%! to do one, then there's absolutely no hope whatsoever. Not even the slightest glimmer. Dead man walking.

Anyway. £#%&! knows what's going to happen now, or what should happen for the best if Ole is sacked. The clubs a mess. Any half competant owner would've had the likes of Woodward sacked years ago, the fact that he's been able to hang on and walk away himself doesn't inspire any sort of confidence in how we go forward.

Originally Posted by Pop

It was always too big a job for him. Molde to Cardiff to Man Utd.

Sounds mental when you see it like that.

Said the same thing...

we wouldn't have taken a punt on anyone else with that CV....

the only difference here is that he won the European Cup for us..

Villareal. They were not a good team, and losing to them was a disaster. He was like a rabbit in the headlights and had no idea what to do.

A big factor this season for me hadn't just been performances but individual players apparently playing very well for their countries over the summer and during the break (Maguire, Pogba, Fernandes, Ronaldo, Fred, The Scottish Player, and I'm sorry but that does include Shaw, who was excellent at Euro 2020 and received lots of praise over here).

So why do they turn up in a red shirt and look like Graeme Hogg?

It's not like they're blameless, but the coaching is obviously very, very poor.

Bruno coming in and covid football probably saved him his job at that time.

Shit thing to say but we’re all thinking it.

Originally Posted by AK14

Bruno coming in and covid football probably saved him his job at that time.

Shit thing to say but we’re all thinking it.

The good old days of covid

December 2019 after we drew to back to back with Sheffield United and Villa for me.

Everything I've said backing him since then was well disguised sarcasm.

If he hadn't been who he was as a player he'd never have got within a million miles of the job.

Cardiff and Molde.

It was ridiculous...and many said it at the time.

never been good enough. obvs. not being jose was enough for half a season.

The subs were always a warning sign tbf.

Originally Posted by 20LEgend1999

December 2019 after we drew to back to back with Sheffield United and Villa for me.

Everything I've said backing him since then was well disguised sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Villareal. They were not a good team, and losing to them was a disaster. He was like a rabbit in the headlights and had no idea what to do.

A big factor this season for me hadn't just been performances but individual players apparently playing very well for their countries over the summer and during the break (Maguire, Pogba, Fernandes, Ronaldo, Fred, The Scottish Player, and I'm sorry but that does include Shaw, who was excellent at Euro 2020 and received lots of praise over here).

So why do they turn up in a red shirt and look like Graeme Hogg?

It's not like they're blameless, but the coaching is obviously very, very poor.

The international football argument is nonsense. We're talking about the most basic level of football here - working as hard(er) as the opposition. This has nothing to do with coaching. It should be a given for a professional footballer at this level.
International tournaments have no relevance. From what I saw at the euros the city players were pretty much awful for their countries but they're playing for a team that should win this league at a canter.
A good couple of weeks in the summer doesn't change the fact that Pogba is probably the worst signing in the club's history, Shaw has been a problem for 3 different United managers and Maguire at his best could be classed as just about ok.

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

The international football argument is nonsense. We're talking about the most basic level of football here - working as hard(er) as the opposition. This has nothing to do with coaching. It should be a given for a professional footballer at this level.
International tournaments have no relevance. From what I saw at the euros the city players were pretty much awful for their countries but they're playing for a team that should win this league at a canter.
A good couple of weeks in the summer doesn't change the fact that Pogba is probably the worst signing in the club's history, Shaw has been a problem for 3 different United managers and Maguire at his best could be classed as just about ok.

And yet they're not are they


I didn't say it was the only factor, I also included the international break and not just the euros. Not sure you actually read what I posted tbh.

The point is, you have to wonder why players look confident and in control playing for their countries, yet confused and clumsy playing for the club. And it's not just one either, it's about 8 or 9 of them, including £#%&!ing Fred.
Perhaps one reason might be because they've been given precise instructions? Just a wild guess.

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

The international football argument is nonsense. We're talking about the most basic level of football here - working as hard(er) as the opposition. This has nothing to do with coaching. It should be a given for a professional footballer at this level.
International tournaments have no relevance. From what I saw at the euros the city players were pretty much awful for their countries but they're playing for a team that should win this league at a canter.
A good couple of weeks in the summer doesn't change the fact that Pogba is probably the worst signing in the club's history, Shaw has been a problem for 3 different United managers and Maguire at his best could be classed as just about ok.

Of course it has to do with coaching otherwise what is the point of the manager and coaching

You want our players to close Liverpool down, how?
When do you want the players press, high or once it gets to the half way line
Do they press man to man or zonally?

This stuff has to be drilled so the players do it in a coordinated fashion otherwise what happened for the first goal happens
The players are confused as they are not sure what they are meant to be doing

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

The international football argument is nonsense. We're talking about the most basic level of football here - working as hard(er) as the opposition. This has nothing to do with coaching. It should be a given for a professional footballer at this level.
International tournaments have no relevance. From what I saw at the euros the city players were pretty much awful for their countries but they're playing for a team that should win this league at a canter.
A good couple of weeks in the summer doesn't change the fact that Pogba is probably the worst signing in the club's history, Shaw has been a problem for 3 different United managers and Maguire at his best could be classed as just about ok.

So because they are professionals they should work harder than the opposition …. Who are also professionals.

They do work hard ffs. You just can’t get people to work their absolute hardest if they don’t believe in you.

Do you think the Liverpool players would be working as hard in the United side? Or are they working that hard because they have total trust in their manager?

And when you play someone like that the chasm is huge. A team with 10% more belief is going to win more tackles, look half a yard faster and give that bit more.

Why do Brentford players work so much harder? Are all those championship players better pros than virtually our entire squad, or is it the man at the top who shapes them?

Either they’re ALL bad professionals or ONE man isn’t good enough.

There obviously a massive portion of the blame to level at the manager, but some of these players, particularly the defenders, are getting an easy ride.

There’s just no excuse for Salah beating Maguire to that ball yesterday. He just wanted it more. It’s an instinctive thing, Maguire didn’t have time to think “oooh did Ole tell me on the training ground that I should try to get to the ball before an opposition striker when it’s in our box”

It’s £#%&!ing basics. The most expensive defender ever or whatever he is should not need to be told that.

Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust

Of course it has to do with coaching otherwise what is the point of the manager and coaching

You want our players to close Liverpool down, how?
When do you want the players press, high or once it gets to the half way line
Do they press man to man or zonally?

This stuff has to be drilled so the players do it in a coordinated fashion otherwise what happened for the first goal happens
The players are confused as they are not sure what they are meant to be doing

Exactly.

Freeze frame that first goal and Shaw is the deepest and only defender. He’s central. Maguire and Lindelof are behind the play and AWB is about 30 yards back.

Maybe they just had a moment and that’s on them.

But those sorts of cluster£#%&!s happen to all different players in all different areas of the pitch. You see it with players like Matic, an intelligent footballer who has won the league with Chelsea. He will look as lost as any of them.

Bruno half presses. Is he lazy? Is he £#%&!. That guy will run all day for you. So will Scott The Scottish Player, their pressing is likely their own frustration and trying to make an impact. Like a striker coming deep to affect play because he isn’t seeing enough of the ball.

Good coaching elevates the likes of Brentford to compete with Liverpool. They drew 3-3 with this Liverpool side. They narrowly lost to Chelsea. Teams they have no right to be anywhere near.

Bad coaching does the opposite and can reduce world class players to looking utterly lost and easy to beat.

And they we go “well they should work harder”

Originally Posted by Ethers

There obviously a massive portion of the blame to level at the manager, but some of these players, particularly the defenders, are getting an easy ride.

There’s just no excuse for Salah beating Maguire to that ball yesterday. He just wanted it more. It’s an instinctive thing, Maguire didn’t have time to think “oooh did Ole tell me on the training ground that I should try to get to the ball before an opposition striker when it’s in our box”

It’s £#%&!ing basics. The most expensive defender ever or whatever he is should not need to be told that.

He’s losing a lot at the moment. Because he’s playing terribly. Like pretty much all of them are.

If Maguire just had a mad moment, then that’s hard to legislate for, but he’s been doing it all season. So drop him. Or tell him where to improve. What to do.

And it’s not just him.

Once again, if it was a couple of players, a couple of times ruining an otherwise sound plan, then ok, but it’s most of them and most of the time.

By the way, Liverpool fans have been critical of Salah in the past for shrinking. So why did he want it more yesterday? Because he’s absolutely on top of the world right now. In no small part due to being in an excellent side with an excellent manager. And there’s no chance he’d be elevated to the best player in the world in this United side.

Originally Posted by Zorg

And yet they're not are they


I didn't say it was the only factor, I also included the international break and not just the euros. Not sure you actually read what I posted tbh.

The point is, you have to wonder why players look confident and in control playing for their countries, yet confused and clumsy playing for the club. And it's not just one either, it's about 8 or 9 of them, including f***ing Fred.
Perhaps one reason might be because they've been given precise instructions? Just a wild guess.

No I read your post.
What you're failing to grasp is that international football is at a far lower level and has been for years and shouldn't be used as a yardstick for anything.
All your waffle doesn't change the fact that Pogba has been shite for 90% of the time since we signed, Shaw is a dope and Maguire is at best average. There are plenty of valid reasons why we should change the manager. That isn't one of them.
And you can stick your smilie up your arse. What are you, a £#%&!ing 12 year old girl.

Originally Posted by Ethers

There obviously a massive portion of the blame to level at the manager, but some of these players, particularly the defenders, are getting an easy ride.

There’s just no excuse for Salah beating Maguire to that ball yesterday. He just wanted it more. It’s an instinctive thing, Maguire didn’t have time to think “oooh did Ole tell me on the training ground that I should try to get to the ball before an opposition striker when it’s in our box”

It’s f***ing basics. The most expensive defender ever or whatever he is should not need to be told that.

Exactly this.

To answer the thread title question, Europa League final.

Was soft and let my mind be changed in the subsequent weeks.

Shouldn't have, OGS should have gone then.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

To answer the thread title question, Europa League final.

Was soft and let my mind be changed in the subsequent weeks.

Shouldn't have, OGS should have gone then.

Bit harsh. Think it’s hard to sack any manager who finished 2nd in the league without thinking if we sign a few more players we can challenge. Unless you spend something crazy like 250 million in one window and then still don’t finish top, I don’t think it’s that bad to give your manager more time . ESP as it’s an improvement from the preceding season. That being said we seem to have regressed quite badly but hindsight is a bastard

Originally Posted by Dasilvatwins

Bit harsh

But, seeing where we are now, not unfair.