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Unread 21-08-2018, 10:05 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
Not sure I can agree there.

You really can’t compare the 90s to what football has turned in to now. Yes the rot had started to set in, but it’s a world away from the modern game.
Indeed, the 90s was when somebody like Jack Walker was considered a "moneybags" (and yes, criticised massively for it)
 
Unread 22-08-2018, 12:45 AM
elhombre
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
Not sure I can agree there.

You really can’t compare the 90s to what football has turned in to now. Yes the rot had started to set in, but it’s a world away from the modern game.
it's relative and you surprise me with what you've said.
United in the 90s were a monster - financially and sporting-wise.
Huge transfer fees; huge wages; huge deals in terms of sponsorship; muted take-over deals - even as early as the late 80s and early 90s.

as you move away from two adjacent entities the distance between them appears to reduce - and that's how we're viewing the 90s and United and the competition: we don't realise how much of a gulf there was.

we were a monster and no one came close to us - £#%&! off with the Walker stuff, it was a transient flight of fantasy, never to last.

we bought in players in droves and brushed off their owners with impunity - dwight yorke at Villa being one example. Ferdinand at Leeds, although not as acrimonious. we could do what we wanted and we did.

times have changed and we're on a par, if not behind the likes of Barca and Madrid.

Times change and the increase in power, coupled with the chaos at the club may see us slip behind.

how anyone can say this isn't the tables being turned is beyond me.
we've done it to others, now it's our turn.

that's life and i can fully see why City are so giddy - it's payback.
if we were in city's position, or dare i say it, the glazers were magnificent benefactors to the cause, we'd write a narrative to expunge the financial cause of our dominance.

we're becoming liverpool, but more bitter.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 10:58 AM
windy waffles
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhombre
it's relative and you surprise me with what you've said.
United in the 90s were a monster - financially and sporting-wise.
Huge transfer fees; huge wages; huge deals in terms of sponsorship; muted take-over deals - even as early as the late 80s and early 90s.

as you move away from two adjacent entities the distance between them appears to reduce - and that's how we're viewing the 90s and United and the competition: we don't realise how much of a gulf there was.

we were a monster and no one came close to us - £#%&! off with the Walker stuff, it was a transient flight of fantasy, never to last.

we bought in players in droves and brushed off their owners with impunity - dwight yorke at Villa being one example. Ferdinand at Leeds, although not as acrimonious. we could do what we wanted and we did.

times have changed and we're on a par, if not behind the likes of Barca and Madrid.

Times change and the increase in power, coupled with the chaos at the club may see us slip behind.

how anyone can say this isn't the tables being turned is beyond me.
we've done it to others, now it's our turn.

that's life and i can fully see why City are so giddy - it's payback.
if we were in city's position, or dare i say it, the glazers were magnificent benefactors to the cause, we'd write a narrative to expunge the financial cause of our dominance.

we're becoming liverpool, but more bitter.
Postage.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 12:21 PM
Whip Hubley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhombre
it's relative and you surprise me with what you've said.....

Yup, the bigger you are the harder you fall. The better you've had it, the worse the 'bad times' hit you etc ad nauseum

It all needs to be taken with a dose of relativity though - we're in shit state as far as we know it, but compared to others we're still in the top 2 in the land in terms of trophies won over the last few years (I think? Top 3 at worst?)

The problem comes in that we don't have a long term plan, and the fall out post-fergie has been horrific.


Whichever way you look at it, it all started with Moyes. Got worse when we decided to bin LVG 2 years in, and is continuing by rightly or wrongly not backing Mourinho,

3 completely different managers with different ideas. Nice one united
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 02:33 PM
elhombre
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
Yup, the bigger you are the harder you fall. The better you've had it, the worse the 'bad times' hit you etc ad nauseum

It all needs to be taken with a dose of relativity though - we're in shit state as far as we know it, but compared to others we're still in the top 2 in the land in terms of trophies won over the last few years (I think? Top 3 at worst?)

The problem comes in that we don't have a long term plan, and the fall out post-fergie has been horrific.


Whichever way you look at it, it all started with Moyes.
Got worse when we decided to bin LVG 2 years in, and is continuing by rightly or wrongly not backing Mourinho,

3 completely different managers with different ideas. Nice one united
Dewy-eyed sentimentalism i agree, but i think anyone taking over from Fergie would have struggled. He was woven in to the fabric of the club and it would have taken years for the club to get over the change... but it was made all the more hard by employing a man who worked for a club which wasn't the biggest in liverpool, let alone the world.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 02:42 PM
Ethers
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhombre
it's relative and you surprise me with what you've said.
United in the 90s were a monster - financially and sporting-wise.
Huge transfer fees; huge wages; huge deals in terms of sponsorship; muted take-over deals - even as early as the late 80s and early 90s.

as you move away from two adjacent entities the distance between them appears to reduce - and that's how we're viewing the 90s and United and the competition: we don't realise how much of a gulf there was.

we were a monster and no one came close to us - £#%&! off with the Walker stuff, it was a transient flight of fantasy, never to last.

we bought in players in droves and brushed off their owners with impunity - dwight yorke at Villa being one example. Ferdinand at Leeds, although not as acrimonious. we could do what we wanted and we did.

times have changed and we're on a par, if not behind the likes of Barca and Madrid.

Times change and the increase in power, coupled with the chaos at the club may see us slip behind.

how anyone can say this isn't the tables being turned is beyond me.
we've done it to others, now it's our turn.

that's life and i can fully see why City are so giddy - it's payback.
if we were in city's position, or dare i say it, the glazers were magnificent benefactors to the cause, we'd write a narrative to expunge the financial cause of our dominance.

we're becoming liverpool, but more bitter.
I was more talking about the match going side of things tbh, not financial
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 02:44 PM
elhombre
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethers
I was more talking about the match going side of things tbh, not financial
aren't the two inextricably linked?
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 02:47 PM
Ethers
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhombre
aren't the two inextricably linked?
I suppose so, but going to the game in the 90s was still a world away from the sanitised experience of today. That was the only point I was making.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 03:07 PM
ZiggyStardust
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhombre
it's relative and you surprise me with what you've said.
United in the 90s were a monster - financially and sporting-wise.
Huge transfer fees; huge wages; huge deals in terms of sponsorship; muted take-over deals - even as early as the late 80s and early 90s.

as you move away from two adjacent entities the distance between them appears to reduce - and that's how we're viewing the 90s and United and the competition: we don't realise how much of a gulf there was.

we were a monster and no one came close to us - £#%&! off with the Walker stuff, it was a transient flight of fantasy, never to last.

we bought in players in droves and brushed off their owners with impunity - dwight yorke at Villa being one example. Ferdinand at Leeds, although not as acrimonious. we could do what we wanted and we did.

times have changed and we're on a par, if not behind the likes of Barca and Madrid.

Times change and the increase in power, coupled with the chaos at the club may see us slip behind.

how anyone can say this isn't the tables being turned is beyond me.
we've done it to others, now it's our turn.

that's life and i can fully see why City are so giddy - it's payback.
if we were in city's position, or dare i say it, the glazers were magnificent benefactors to the cause, we'd write a narrative to expunge the financial cause of our dominance.

we're becoming liverpool, but more bitter.
Your memory is playing tricks with you
We weren't even the biggest spenders in England in the 90s and compared to the top clubs in Europe we were miles behind in spending and wages power
When we were spending 3 mill plus on Keane, Milan were spending 13 mill on Lentini

FFS we were outspent by Rangers back then

Commercially we might have been top but it didn't translate into transfer fees and wages
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 03:17 PM
elhombre
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiggyStardust
Your memory is playing tricks with you
We weren't even the biggest spenders in England in the 90s and compared to the top clubs in Europe we were miles behind in spending and wages power
When we were spending 3 mill plus on Keane, Milan were spending 13 mill on Lentini

FFS we were outspent by Rangers back then

Commercially we might have been top but it didn't translate into transfer fees and wages
i beg to differ, OK, maybe in Europe we were not massive hitters, but i think that was down to prudence - europe did see huge outlays on players, but the examples you mentioned have also seen concomitant losses and dips following that period, as have the leagues they're in.

i think to say united didn't hold the balance of power in england due to their structure and finances is glossing over the facts, they didn't get to where they are, still, by accident. look at their signings over the last 20-odd years - in terms of outlay and frequency - it's big however you look at it.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 03:21 PM
Sapien
 
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On the bright side, we've got 16 years until City officially knock us off our perch
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 03:22 PM
elhombre
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapien
On the bright side, we've got 16 years until City officially knock us off our perch
Bring back the days of "forward with f(r)anny"

 
Unread 23-08-2018, 05:07 PM
Red Al
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapien
On the bright side, we've got 16 years until City officially knock us off our perch

Nope

All our trophys have been won on merit and under the clubs own steam

City's achievements 2009 onwards are nothing to do with the the club they just got lucky they where picked by billionaires wanting a vanity project.

No busby babes or class of 92 etc. Just money buying trophies


And that will always be levelled at them.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 05:25 PM
Sparky***
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Al
Nope

All our trophys have been won on merit and under the clubs own steam

City's achievements 2009 onwards are nothing to do with the the club they just got lucky they where picked by billionaires wanting a vanity project.

No busby babes or class of 92 etc. Just money buying trophies


And that will always be levelled at them.
We are rich because we were successful

They are successful because their owners are rich

If both clubs owners sold up tomorrow, we would carry on as normal or arguably be stronger...they would sink without a trace.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 05:30 PM
Bunker Buster
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Al
Nope

All our trophys have been won on merit and under the clubs own steam

City's achievements 2009 onwards are nothing to do with the the club they just got lucky they where picked by billionaires wanting a vanity project.

No busby babes or class of 92 etc. Just money buying trophies


And that will always be levelled at them.
In a very corner of the internet a few reds keep repeating this shite....

They are winning trophies, it’s a great feeling....when you lose the desire for that feeling and mock people you become a bitter nobody...
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 05:46 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Yes but the point is, they are winning them by the financial equivalent of doping. Its not "bitter" to point that out, merely factual.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 06:29 PM
Chris Quayd
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red in cumbria
Yes but the point is, they are winning them by the financial equivalent of doping. Its not "bitter" to point that out, merely factual.
Factual or not they dont give a £#%&! and neither would anyone in their position. I don't think them getting 100 points is somehow tarnished by the fact they outspent other teams, plenty of teams in the past have spent money and gotten nowhere.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 06:34 PM
red in cumbria
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
Factual or not they dont give a £#%&! and neither would anyone in their position. I don't think them getting 100 points is somehow tarnished by the fact they outspent other teams, plenty of teams in the past have spent money and gotten nowhere.
But that's not really the point, the rest of us can "give a £#%&!" even if they don't.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 06:38 PM
suedeshoes
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red in cumbria
Yes but the point is, they are winning them by the financial equivalent of doping. Its not "bitter" to point that out, merely factual.
Balls. We've spent a fortune and we're still shit.
 
Unread 23-08-2018, 06:44 PM
Red Al
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
In a very corner of the internet a few reds keep repeating this shite....

They are winning trophies, it’s a great feeling....when you lose the desire for that feeling and mock people you become a bitter nobody...

Just stating fact

When Leicester won the league I (and most others)took our hats off to them.
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