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Unread 02-03-2018, 06:47 PM
Tiberian
 
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He has been one of our better players this season, as hard as that may be for some to admit, and I love the fact that most of his goals have been important, either at key stages of games and/or against better opposition. Plenty in the game who are great when the team is 3 up and cruising.

Easy to look at the dances and some of his more childish aspects but that is just a generational disconnect(for me at least) but he turns up in big games and as Clarkie points out, backs up his teammates when it turns physical. Much better through the middle than from wide, which partly explains his upturn in performances this year.
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 07:38 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
I think people need to start being a bit more discerning about what they’d like to be the case and what is the case. Players can be taught how to play but not how to feel. If that desire is not there now it never will be.
About this at least, I completely agree.
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 09:55 PM
sweetleftfoot
 
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Jesseh loves United.
Loves playing for United.
Scores big goals.
Including a Cup Final winner.
His movement creates more chances than Martial or Pogba.
Backs his mates up when ciddy kick off on him.
Boils piss all over.
I love Jesseh.
If he was a Marseilles midfielder from Brazil his haters would be jizzing over us looking to spend £75m on him.
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 10:10 PM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot
Jesseh loves United.
Loves playing for United.
Scores big goals.
Including a Cup Final winner.
His movement creates more chances than Martial or Pogba.
Backs his mates up when ciddy kick off on him.
Boils piss all over.
I love Jesseh.
If he was a Marseilles midfielder from Brazil his haters would be jizzing over us looking to spend £75m on him.
What tune ?
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 10:16 PM
Lazlo Panaflex
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot
Jesseh loves United.
Loves playing for United.
Scores big goals.
Including a Cup Final winner.
His movement creates more chances than Martial or Pogba.
Backs his mates up when ciddy kick off on him.
Boils piss all over.
I love Jesseh.
If he was a Marseilles midfielder from Brazil his haters would be jizzing over us looking to spend £75m on him.
With you up till the 75m statement. Jumped the shark on that one imo.
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 10:53 PM
sa7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
What tune ?
Never Gonna Give You Up
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 11:17 PM
sub three hours
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazlo Panaflex
With you up till the 75m statement. Jumped the shark on that one imo.


Messi Lingard
 
Unread 02-03-2018, 11:30 PM
sweetleftfoot
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
What tune ?
I had Jessies Girl in my head when penning it.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 07:52 AM
elhombre
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot
Jesseh loves United.
Loves playing for United.
Scores big goals.
Including a Cup Final winner.
His movement creates more chances than Martial or Pogba.
Backs his mates up when ciddy kick off on him.
Boils piss all over.
I love Jesseh.
If he was a Marseilles midfielder from Brazil his haters would be jizzing over us looking to spend £75m on him.
This.

Welcome to the world of football logic.

I can't even be arsed aruging anymore. I've realised people are £#%&!ing tapped when it comes to these things.

He does a job and does it well.

Like you say, i don't know what he would have to do to become a player respected by all our fans. weird.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 09:09 AM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot
I had Jessies Girl in my head when penning it.
I was singing Jesse's Goal to that after the Cup final

Then I stopped
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 10:07 AM
rubbernecker
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleftfoot
I had Jessies Girl in my head when penning it.

Only time that I could abide the song
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 11:51 AM
sa7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyroo
I was singing Jesse's Goal to that after the Cup final

Then I stopped
I wish I scored Jesse's goal...

Why can't I buy a winger like that?

BANGER
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 02:04 PM
utd99
 
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Arsenal let their standards drop over the years and look where it’s gotten them. When Cocquelin becomes the new acceptable standard then don’t expect Vieira levels of achievement. There are loads of examples throughout their squad, which is undoubtedly why players who were of the requisite quality, like Van Persie, looked around and said ‘£#%&! this’.

Replacing players like Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, etc, directly is less important than maintaining that level of quality as the benchmark. The second something less becomes acceptable you’re on a slippery slope. Those types of player are rare, but they’re out there. Any one of City’s top players could have been wearing a United shirt if we had wanted them to.

There are plenty of cautionary tales in the english game if we cared to look. Arsenal, as mentioned, and Liverpool also dropping their standards from Hansen, McMahon and Barnes to Ruddock, Jimmy Carter and David Speedie; and they never recovered.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 02:08 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99
Arsenal let their standards drop over the years and look where it’s gotten them. When Cocquelin becomes the new acceptable standard then don’t expect Vieira levels of achievement. There are loads of examples throughout their squad, which is undoubtedly why players who were of the requisite quality, like Van Persie, looked around and said ‘£#%&! this’.

Replacing players like Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, etc, directly is less important than maintaining that level of quality as the benchmark. The second something less becomes acceptable you’re on a slippery slope. Those types of player are rare, but they’re out there. Any one of City’s top players could have been wearing a United shirt if we had wanted them to.

There are plenty of cautionary tales in the english game if we cared to look. Arsenal, as mentioned, and Liverpool also dropping their standards from Hansen, McMahon and Barnes to Ruddock, Jimmy Carter and David Speedie; and they never recovered.
All true, problem is, the target of your ire is directed firmly at the wrong player. You can't be mad at Jesseh when the actual players dragging the acceptable standard down are people like Mata, Rojo, Herrera, Blind etc.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 02:39 PM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
All true, problem is, the target of your ire is directed firmly at the wrong player. You can't be mad at Jesseh when the actual players dragging the acceptable standard down are people like Mata, Rojo, Herrera, Blind etc.
Why them but not Lingard?

Fringe players like Jesse, Blind, Rojo don't really bother me. They're back up. If they improve to become first team, so be it.

Valencia being accepted as first choice right back, Smalling at centre back, Jones at centre back, Young at left back, Herrera our player of the year last season....that's more of an issue.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 02:41 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
Why them but not Lingard?

Fringe players like Jesse, Blind, Rojo don't really bother me. They're back up. If they improve to become first team, so be it.

Valencia being accepted as first choice right back, Smalling at centre back, Jones at centre back, Young at left back, Herrera our player of the year last season....that's more of an issue.
They all cost money and are evidence of our acceptance of shite when procuring players. Lingard is a hail mary, if he comes good great, if he doesn't, ah well, we'll make a few quid selling him on. If he isn't good enough and we still have to play him, that is a reflection on the shit we're bought. etc.

The many, many young kids that came through and had a dabble in the first team in Fergie's years were never an issue either.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 02:55 PM
Billy Redface
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
They all cost money and are evidence of our acceptance of shite when procuring players. Lingard is a hail mary, if he comes good great, if he doesn't, ah well, we'll make a few quid selling him on. If he isn't good enough and we still have to play him, that is a reflection on the shit we're bought. etc.

The many, many young kids that came through and had a dabble in the first team in Fergie's years were never an issue either.
Does him being free matter?

Are we talking about the cost of building this side or the standard of it?

The issue might be that we accept his standard BECAUSE he's free and it feels like anything he gives is a bonus.

That would be excusing him of a poor standard simply because they're free. Players don't set their fees, so free players shouldn't get a free ride either.. once they're on the pitch, that's where the standard is decided.

(I'm not saying that's the case with him, btw. Just that the price shouldn't really affect that)
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 03:13 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
Does him being free matter?

Are we talking about the cost of building this side or the standard of it?

The issue might be that we accept his standard BECAUSE he's free and it feels like anything he gives is a bonus.

That would be excusing him of a poor standard simply because they're free. Players don't set their fees, so free players shouldn't get a free ride either.. once they're on the pitch, that's where the standard is decided.

(I'm not saying that's the case with him, btw. Just that the price shouldn't really affect that)
There may be a case of that, doesn't change the fact that pointing your ire at the kids coming through for not being good enough when we've spent half a billion is blaming the wrong players. Especially when you're complaining that the plethora of stunning, important goals isn't enough and it will all fade eventually
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 03:16 PM
utd99
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Redface
Does him being free matter?

Are we talking about the cost of building this side or the standard of it?

The issue might be that we accept his standard BECAUSE he's free and it feels like anything he gives is a bonus.

That would be excusing him of a poor standard simply because they're free. Players don't set their fees, so free players shouldn't get a free ride either.. once they're on the pitch, that's where the standard is decided.

(I'm not saying that's the case with him, btw. Just that the price shouldn't really affect that)
I think it’s less about the cost and more about United’s relationship with homegrowns over the years. We are mired in the history of the Babes and the Co92, and producing our own is the fabric of the club; rightly so imo. The problem is that sometimes we want it so badly that we make allowances we shouldn’t.

My feeling is that all any young player can ask for is a chance to show what they’ve got. The onus is not on United to prove they’re good enough, it’s on the player himself. We shouldn’t adjust our standards to accomodate a certain type of player, they need to raise theirs to meet our exacting ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
There may be a case of that, doesn't change the fact that pointing your ire at the kids coming through for not being good enough when we've spent half a billion is blaming the wrong players. Especially when you're complaining that the plethora of stunning, important goals isn't enough and it will all fade eventually
The two issues are not mutually exclusive. Bought or produced, it’s all about quality. Pulling on that shirt should be the equaliser.
 
Unread 03-03-2018, 03:24 PM
dunk
 
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Going off Utd99's vision of how it should be, we'd never have a youth player make it unless they were Messi.

The only way to build a team is to put young players together and allow them to grow into their roles, to make the mistakes, play through poor form occasionally and learn. You can't know if a player is going to make it after 1 great performance any more than you can after 1 shit performance. One of United's problems as it stands is that players aren't getting this opportunity, and they are all terrified of making a mistake.
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