Fergie retiring next month, Jose lined up

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i still don't see why people describe the Barcelona away game as being "ultra negative!

it was a game in which United could have and should have had 3 penalties for a start off. it was also a game in which Barcelona created very very little. we had plenty of opportunities to break on them and we had quite a few decent situations that we didn't take full advantage of. we also had Ronaldo cut through them only to be felled by a professional foul (by the mexican iirc) who should also have been sent off in the 2nd penalty incident. Iniesta's assault on Hargreaves was far far worse than anything Ribery did in this season s/f as well btw.

Right about Marquez taking Ronaldo out. The ref (same one who sent off Cris against Bayern) bottled that. If I remember correctly, I think Rio was also lucky not to give away a penalty after clumsily kicking Eto'o, who fortunately opted to stay on his feet.

But it was extremely defensive. I remember, Scholes aside (he was superb) we simply couldn't keep the ball, much like in Munich. But there's no doubt it was a hugely defensive set-up imo. Both Tevez and Rooney barely left our half. Ronaldo played up top on his own, a job I thought he did fantastically well with very little support.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Agree with this. In fact, our approach on the way to the final in 2008 was hugely defensive. We were poor in Lyon before getting a very late equaliser through Tevez to get a 1-1 draw. We won in Rome in a fashion that had the Italian press dubbing us the new masters of Catenaccio. Then there was the ultra defensive display at Camp Nou. In all three ties we won in the home legs with narrow 1-0 victories. There were certainly never any performances as memorable as Inter's wins over Barca at the San Siro or Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

As well as underestimating the value of Mourinho's football to a degree, I think a lot of people vastly exaggerate the nature of United's own standards in this respect in recent times.

Exactly. Our run to the final the following year was pretty forgettable to, until the 2nd leg against Arsenal. Domestically we've been little better, with "great attacking football" usually saved for the shite of the League.

I'm not saying that our styl of play in wrong btw. Football aesthetics is purely down to individual taste after all. When you consider how successful we've been in recent years (both home and abroad), obviously Ferguson's tactics have been vindicated.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Exactly. Our run to the final the following year was pretty forgettable to, until the 2nd leg against Arsenal

Tbf we would probably still be raving over the away tie to Inter - if only we had managed to £#%&!ing score!

One of the most one-sided 0-0s ever

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Right about Marquez taking Ronaldo out. The ref (same one who sent off Cris against Bayern) bottled that. If I remember correctly, I think Rio was also lucky not to give away a penalty after clumsily kicking Eto'o, who fortunately opted to stay on his feet.

But it was extremely defensive. I remember, Scholes aside (he was superb) we simply couldn't keep the ball, much like in Munich. But there's no doubt it was a hugely defensive set-up imo. Both Tevez and Rooney barely left our half. Ronaldo played up top on his own, a job I thought he did fantastically well with very little support.

he took Ronaldo out for the penalty, of that there is no doubt. i was referring to another incident cutting in from the left though. these were just two of the situations that we weren't able to take maximum advantage of for one reason or another.

anyway, i still say that it was a lack of sharpness in our possession and particularly in our counter-attack passing and decision-making that forced us onto the back foot. it was not a deliberate strategy. possibly last season's Bayern game is a fair comparison, but only really in terms of the unforced errors we made in possession. Bayern carved us open repeatedly, something Barcelona simply were not able to do. iirc they only really created one real chance.


the referee was within his rights to dismiss Cris imo, but we've been there before as well

Within his rights is correct. Just like a lot of the decisions Steve Bennett (and David Ellery before him) has made have been within his rights. But the referee should be trying to keep the players on the pitch, not applying the slightest technicality available to send them off. There was a complete lack of perspective and common sense from the referee in that incident, imo.

Inter's utter dominance over Bayern in the champions league final only served to highlight further our own shortcomings in the quarter final.

That Bayern team would have never scored 4 goals against us in 2008. And we'd have absolutely annihilated them over 2 legs.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Within his rights is correct. Just like a lot of the decisions Steve Bennett (and David Ellery before him) has made have been within his rights. But the referee should be trying to keep the players on the pitch, not applying the slightest technicality available to send them off. There was a complete lack of perspective and common sense from the referee in that incident, imo.

don't really agree. the real perspective on that incident needs to be that it was a yellow card and not a straight red. his first yellow was far more of a technical decision, basically removing any need to differentiate between a cynical game-changing decision and an instinctive trip in a pretty routine moment.

talking of perspective, exactly how Ribery's misjudgement can be deemed worthy of a 3 match ban to include missing the final is totally beyond me. there is a misjudgement similar to that in virtually every game, and in virtually all cases the player is completely unharmed, just as the Lyon player was, and the offender receives no more than a yellow.


btw, think i may be getting my Cris and Toulalans mixed up here?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

don't really agree. the real perspective on that incident needs to be that it was a yellow card and not a straight red. his first yellow was far more of a technical decision, basically removing any need to differentiate between a cynical game-changing decision and an instinctive trip in a pretty routine moment.

talking of perspective, exactly how Ribery's misjudgement can be deemed worthy of a 3 match ban to include missing the final is totally beyond me. there is a misjudgement similar to that in virtually every game, and in virtually all cases the player is completely unharmed, just as the Lyon player was, and the offender receives no more than a yellow.


btw, think i may be getting my Cris and Toulalans mixed up here?

Toulalan was two yellows for challenges in quick succession in the first leg.

Cris' red was in the second leg. Incorrectly penalised for a clean challenge on the halfway line, booked, then issued a second yellow for sarcastically applauding the decision.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Toulalan was two yellows for challenges in quick succession in the first leg.

Cris' red was in the second leg. Incorrectly penalised for a clean challenge on the halfway line, booked, then issued a second yellow for sarcastically applauding the decision.

aha


the Cris one was the foot up one yeah?

if it was* thought that was a yellow tbf, in the context of that game at least. wasn't paying the most attention though, as you can tell ;-}


* or was that Toulalan?


i'm out :-)

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

aha


the Cris one was the foot up one yeah?

if it was* thought that was a yellow tbf, in the context of that game at least. wasn't paying the most attention though, as you can tell ;-}


* or was that Toulalan?


i'm out :-)

No!

But it was more the second yellow - for dissent - that I felt was avoidable.

It's lazy to think that Inter are a defensive side. Sure, they are very good at defending, but Milito, Pandev, Eto'o, Schneider etc are all naturally attack-minded players.