Are we allowed to talk about how shit Rashford is now?

Of all the players to go after

Originally Posted by saffers

2nd place and don't forget all the comebacks and big wins vs all our nearest rivals. City amass 100 pts. What do we do in the market? Fred, Dalot and Grant from stoke!

Not a peep from the haters. Just crying about Mou this, mou that. There's a reason his name was sung even as we struggled in midtable. Actual match goers unlike the haters on here knew how he had lifted us from the gloom of moyes/lvg.

People keep talking about Perisic but he wanted Eder Militao, who now is set to be a starting centre half at Real Madrid next season. He wanted and recommended Nicolas Pepe the goalmachine winger who is now gonna joins Bayern, PSG or Real while we have Lingard pretending to be a winger in the side......

The Scottish Player, Fred and Dalot who many are praising as the few bright lights of the recent miserable run were all Mou guys. Funny how the "mou only signed shit" lads have gone a bit quiet.

Saffers, come on dude. All this ‘he wanted this one and wanted that one’, we have no idea if that’s true or not. We’re linked with 100 players every year. The only facts of this matter were that he was allowed to bring in a whole new team -11 players- and spend 350m quid in the process. If you think the return on that investment was acceptable then we differ in our opinions, but let’s not pretend the guy wasn’t supported.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Of all the players to go after

It’s a forum; we talk about all our players.

Originally Posted by utd99

It’s a forum; we talk about all our players.

Or our pre-determined targets, to be a little more accurate.

Barely got the ball into the final third at all after the 20-min mark.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Or our pre-determined targets, to be a little more accurate.

Barely got the ball into the final third at all after the 20-min mark.

Maybe that’s because we care more about Rashford succeeding here than we do about someone like Sanchez or Lukaku. As supporters we have more invested in our own.

Originally Posted by utd99

Maybe that’s because we care more about Rashford succeeding here than we do about someone like Sanchez or Lukaku. As supporters we have more invested in our own.

Rashford will be fine. He's just about the only player in the squad I'm not worried about. Into double figures in the league in a shocking season at the age of 21; showed the bottle in the biggest moment of our season. Can't imagine why he'd be the focus.

Unless you've long decided you don't like him etc...

Delighted the recent turn of results and performances has given saffers the chance to bring his Jose agenda back on the table

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Rashford will be fine. He's just about the only player in the squad I'm not worried about. Into double figures in the league in a shocking season at the age of 21; showed the bottle in the biggest moment of our season. Can't imagine why he'd be the focus.

Unless you've long decided you don't like him etc...

It’s not the point is it? I find it a bit weird when people try to censor conversation on any of our players; what are we afraid of, being forced to confront the fact that our pre conceived ideas make not actually be true? Player A not being good enough has absolutely no bearing at all on whether player B is or not, so why make the connection at all? If they can pull on a United shirt then they’re all fair game IMO.

Originally Posted by utd99

It’s not the point is it? I find it a bit weird when people try to censor conversation on any of our players; what are we afraid of, being forced to confront the fact that our pre conceived ideas make not actually be true? Player A not being good enough has absolutely no bearing at all on whether player B is or not, so why make the connection at all? If they can pull on a United shirt then they’re all fair game IMO.

Yes

I'm saying I don't understand why, right now, Rashford would be the player anyone would focus their frustration on. It's not about censorship, more people reverting to just going after their usual targets. Anyone who could watch that last night and think the 21-year-old striker - who is the reason we're in this round - is worthy of such stick is doing just that imo.

Originally Posted by utd99

The real question is, at what point is it reasonable to expect potential to become realized?

A very reasonable question, which I believe is case dependent.

How old were they when they arrived? How many games have they played? How many different systems, managers, positions etc.

It's not as simple as going straight from potential to the realisation of potential, or it rarely is. There's usually phases.

He had that initial impact. He's now clocked up enough appearances and experience for us to have some expectations of him. His goals tally will continue to improve.

The big question mark is his all round development IMO. He needs to contribute more when the goals aren't flowing. His decision making is often very poor. Being 21 isn't an excuse for that. It could be something he never improves. We will have to see but we should be able to acknowledge it and question it without hiding behind him being 'Just a kid'.

He's been very poor recently. Some of that might he down to injury, but how much of it is down to him? Is he responsible for his own performances at all?

I'm sure he thinks he is.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yes

I'm saying I don't understand why, right now, Rashford would be the player anyone would focus their frustration on. It's not about censorship, more people reverting to just going after their usual targets. Anyone who could watch that last night and think the 21-year-old striker - who is the reason we're in this round - is worthy of such stick is doing just that imo.

Who’s focusing? Is it not possible to discuss multiple things at the same time? Isn’t that the whole purpose of individual thread topics? I can easily accept differing opinions on whether Rashford is progressing how he should be at this point, but I find the whole ‘don’t look here, look there’ approach to be very odd. It’s a United forum, we discuss all things United. People only use the term ‘agenda’ in an effort to discredit others opinions.

Originally Posted by AK14

Probably why Mourinho wanted Willian and Perisic so that we had experienced players as well as the likes of Martial and Rashford.

Woodward had other ideas and signed Alexis Sanchez, which also ruined the wage structure and caused more problems than it solved.

They've both had shocking seasons tbf. Mou signing those two last summer would have £#%&!ed us over totally.

Woodward/the club got that right (if Mou did want them) without doubt. Just a shame it came while not getting Sanchez right.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

A very reasonable question, which I believe is case dependent.

How old were they when they arrived? How many games have they played? How many different systems, managers, positions etc.

Fair enough. So on the one hand he’s still around the age when Harry Kane first started making an impact at Spurs so it’s very reasonable to expect him to have room to grow, but on the other hand he’s played a hell of lot more top class games than Kane had at this point. Solskjaer made the point early on that he’d been giving Rashford tips on finishing; that he had more time than he realized and that he could take a bit off the ball rather than wellying it all the time, and for a while that seemed to be improving the kid’s finishing. Now he appears to have reverted back. Who knows why?

Originally Posted by utd99

Fair enough. So on the one hand he’s still around the age when Harry Kane first started making an impact at Spurs so it’s very reasonable to expect him to have room to grow, but on the other hand he’s played a hell of lot more top class games than Kane had at this point. Solskjaer made the point early on that he’d been giving Rashford tips on finishing; that he had more time than he realized and that he could take a bit off the ball rather than wellying it all the time, and for a while that seemed to be improving the kid’s finishing. Now he appears to have reverted back. Who knows why?

Confidence will always play a part IMO. The best still need confidence.

He's low on it right now.

I do think his finishing has generally improved though. 12 months ago he just smashed everything. Now he's a little more selective.

The dink over Foster recently.... The shot he had across the keeper saved low to the bottom right against West Ham.

But even the idea that ole could come in and improve his finishing right away adds weight to the idea that he can make improvements right now with application.

Originally Posted by utd99

Who’s focusing? Is it not possible to discuss multiple things at the same time? Isn’t that the whole purpose of individual thread topics? I can easily accept differing opinions on whether Rashford is progressing how he should be at this point, but I find the whole ‘don’t look here, look there’ approach to be very odd. It’s a United forum, we discuss all things United. People only use the term ‘agenda’ in an effort to discredit others opinions.

Most football fans have agendas when it comes to analysis games. We all have our favourites and our whipping boys. It's quite standard.

Going after Rashford after last night is pretty much classic. We barely gave him the ball between 20-90 minutes.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Most football fans have agendas. We all have our favourites and our whipping boys. It's quite standard.

Going after Rashford after last night is pretty much classic. We barely gave him the ball between 20-90 minutes.

It's not just last night though . He's been poor in general for a couple of months.

And some of it is as much 'upstairs' as his game going to pieces.

His decision making has become very poor and oddly selfish. His proclivity to shoot on sight is an issue. It could just be him trying too hard. It could be an issue of being selfish and something he can address. Pointing it out doesn't necessarily mean someone has an agenda. It might, but it could also be an innocent observation.

There is not a single player at the club I would like to see succeed more than Rashford.

Right now, I'm about 65% sure he will be success for us for years to come.

I thought Welbeck was about the same.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Most football fans have agendas when it comes to analysis games. We all have our favourites and our whipping boys. It's quite standard.

Going after Rashford after last night is pretty much classic. We barely gave him the ball between 20-90 minutes.

These threads would be pretty short if people didn’t offer opinions on the subject titles wouldn’t they? Martial not being good enough has absolutely no bearing on whether Rashford is or isn’t. I’d say it’s equally likely that people barrell into threads on their pet projects and start flinging about accusations of agenda.

I don’t give a £#%&! about any of these @#%&!s when they’re representing United this way.

Are people really 'going for him' due to his performance last night ?

Or are people taking the view that he currently isn't good enough to lead the line at United. Based on his 164 previous games.

It is the most important position on the pitch. Of little wonder the occupant is discussed when we are floundering, again.

We won't be doing anything as a side until the position is either addressed with a top quality player, or Rashford shows significant improvement.

Originally Posted by Clownbones

It's not just last night though . He's been poor in general for a couple of months.

And some of it is as much 'upstairs' as his game going to pieces.

His decision making has become very poor and oddly selfish. His proclivity to shoot on sight is an issue. It could just be him trying too hard. It could be an issue of being selfish and something he can address. Pointing it out doesn't necessarily mean someone has an agenda. It might, but it could also be an innocent observation.

There is not a single player at the club I would like to see succeed more than Rashford.

Right now, I'm about 65% sure he will be success for us for years to come.

I thought Welbeck was about the same.

I think he's being told to take shots. He's worked closely with Ole by all accounts so it wouldn't be a tough thing to address. But when you bump the thread ten minutes after the final whistle and proclaim him not good enough it clearly is a reaction to last night.

The only time United actually play some football is when the ball gets into the front players. Martial, Rashford, Lingard and when he can be arsed Pogba are the only guys in this side I really trust to actually look after the ball.

After that bright start they barely saw the ball for 70 minutes. No forward is going to flourish in a team that can't pass.

Originally Posted by Coracao

Are people really 'going for him' due to his performance last night ?

Or are people taking the view that he currently isn't good enough to lead the line at United. Based on his 164 previous games.

It is the most important position on the pitch. Of little wonder the occupant is discussed when we are floundering, again.

We won't be doing anything as a side until the position is either addressed with a top quality player, or Rashford shows significant improvement.

Agenda.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

They've both had shocking seasons tbf. Mou signing those two last summer would have £#%&!ed us over totally.

Woodward/the club got that right (if Mou did want them) without doubt. Just a shame it came while not getting Sanchez right.

Summer 2017 he wanted Perisic tbf.