Manchester United v Spurs - 4:30pm 14/01/24 - Official Match Thread

Already stated this season isn't good enough on multiple threads, but it's for multiple reasons out of the managers control....

Momentum needs stability in football, he's had NONE this year....

Originally Posted by Coracao

Tbf pal, there were some saying that the League Cup and Europe's second trophy (one which we had never previously won) were trophies not worth winning when it was Mourinho.

Probably many of those bigging up the League Cup under under 10HAG.

I would imagine we all celebrated them at the time. Looking back at Mourinho’s stint, I don’t think you can call it a success, despite the pots he won. If after 3 seasons under Ten Hag, all we have to look back on is a League Cup win, then I highly doubt anyone would describe his tenure as successful either.

But completely discounting it less than 12 months down the line, when one of the most common arguments against Ole was that he never won things, is odd imo.

If we have a good run in the cup this season and finish where we are now in the league would we say it’s a good season?

Originally Posted by Ethers

I would imagine we all celebrated them at the time. Looking back at Mourinho’s stint, I don’t think you can call it a success, despite the pots he won. If after 3 seasons under Ten Hag, all we have to look back on is a League Cup win, then I highly doubt anyone would describe his tenure as successful either.

But completely discounting it less than 12 months down the line, when one of the most common arguments against Ole was that he never won things, is odd imo.

I think the issues are when some people attempt to tell others it was a 'great' season. It wasn't. The cup win should have been a stepping stone to more progress. We have seen exactly the opposite.

Unfortunately, Mourhino is still our most successful manager post-Fergie. And called out some of the absolute charlatans in this squad long ago. Some of whom we are still lumbered with years on.

Originally Posted by Coracao

I think the issues are when some people attempt to tell others it was a 'great' season. It wasn't. The cup win should have been a stepping stone to more progress. We have seen exactly the opposite.

Unfortunately, Mourhino is still our most successful manager post-Fergie. And called out some of the absolute charlatans in this squad long ago. Some of whom we are still lumbered with years on.

Getting the flags out for the Carabao cup was a bit worrying

Originally Posted by believe

If we have a good run in the cup this season and finish where we are now in the league would we say it’s a good season?

No

Is anyone suggesting we would?

It Wierd we have never congregated after a weekend of football discussing how much progress we are making…..

It’s only the vdb supporter saying it’s ON for no reason

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

He's getting a full season, and rightly so. I'm just saying you can't call dissenting voices at this stage fickle or pathetic.

It's definitely about the progress. If you swapped the seasons around, everyone would be more than happy (aside from the 7-0 and worrying loss of form we're about to go into). Precisely because we'd be seeing improvements.

We're not. We're in reverse and no signs of any real turnaround. That's why there's complaints and I think the calls for more time AND the unrest are both perfectly valid.

Originally Posted by shenwen

You said great

It was an okay season and a good first season for a new manager. But since then we’ve had an awful summer of signings and look as bad on the pitch as we have in ten years. At what point does being fickle become being realistic?

Both these.

No way Bunker van Buster would be as effusive in his praise if ETH wasn't Dutch...

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

No way Bunker van Buster would be as effusive in his praise if ETH wasn't Dutch...

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

Both these.

No way Bunker van Buster would be as effusive in his praise if ETH wasn't Dutch...

ffs

Gypsum is right. It doesn’t have to be this binary thing.

I’m largely still Ten Hag in and there’s more than enough credit in the bank from last season and mitigating circumstances to give him some leeway this season.

Changing the way we’re run is paramount and I’d like to see how he does once INEOS truly have their feet under the table

On the other hand, the progress or lack of, is concerning. It’s easy to just say a manager needs 2/3/4 years, but you need to see progress unfolding as that happens. As some have said, if this was last season and last season was this, I think we could be more optimistic. I’d have been less surprised by this last season given what he took over.

The big problem IMO is that we are markedly worse this year in all areas. Easier to play against. Less cohesive up front. Scoring less. Conceding more, winning less. Losing more. And the players look less on board in terms of looking confident in the plan as they ever have.

I don’t believe they’ve downed tools and I think ‘lose the dressing room’ is lazy and reductive, but you can see when players lose confidence in a plan and/or their ability to execute it. We look that way now.

This has carried over somewhat from last season too. Our best football came before the league cup final. We’ve been patchy at best for the better part of a year.

With INEOS coming in, it’s going to be very difficult for him. He’s not their guy and if we end up finishing 8th to 10th and the fans are as sedated and pissed off as they seem yesterday, they’re going to have a fairly simply decision.

He needs a very strong finish to the season. Both in terms of results and performance.

Originally Posted by est.1878

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

So two cup finals and top 4 isn't a good season now.

Ok.

It was a start, no more than that. Let’s not forget what we were saying as last season drew to a close. We were not playing well. It took a similar drop off from Newcastle and the season ending just in time to stop Liverpool from gatecrashing; and don’t forget how we went out of the Europa.

It was always going to be about what we did next.

Last year was ok. If it was a Fergie season it would have been a failure but those days are gone. We've had numerous better seasons than it post Fergie.

The drop off this season has been so big, the results and performances so poor that there's no way he can survive. After that League Cup final last year; most of us thought it was the start of something. There was so much optimism. We all expected a charge towards the title this year. Not many thought we'd win the thing but we all expected to at least still be in the race before the dark nights started.

No other manager post Fergie has been able to survive with these types of performances/results and he will be no different. He has a stay of execution whilst BJR gets his feet under the table but that is all. It's not a question of if, it's when.

Originally Posted by Lok

No other manager post Fergie has been able to survive with these types of performances/results and he will be no different. He has a stay of execution whilst BJM gets his feet under the table but that is all. It's not a question of if, it's when.

Big John Murtaugh..

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

Big John Murtaugh..

Edited!

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

It was a start, no more than that. Let’s not forget what we were saying as last season drew to a close. We were not playing well. It took a similar drop off from Newcastle and the season ending just in time to stop Liverpool from gatecrashing; and don’t forget how we went out of the Europa.

It was always going to be about what we did next.

IIRC last season after the carling cup final February when we were being beaten away from home consistently …. we were saying “let’s just get the season over with plan for this season”
We are now saying this in january…. And now no good at home or away from home.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Gypsum is right. It doesn’t have to be this binary thing.

I’m largely still Ten Hag in and there’s more than enough credit in the bank from last season and mitigating circumstances to give him some leeway this season.

Changing the way we’re run is paramount and I’d like to see how he does once INEOS truly have their feet under the table

On the other hand, the progress or lack of, is concerning. It’s easy to just say a manager needs 2/3/4 years, but you need to see progress unfolding as that happens. As some have said, if this was last season and last season was this, I think we could be more optimistic. I’d have been less surprised by this last season given what he took over.

The big problem IMO is that we are markedly worse this year in all areas. Easier to play against. Less cohesive up front. Scoring less. Conceding more, winning less. Losing more. And the players look less on board in terms of looking confident in the plan as they ever have.

I don’t believe they’ve downed tools and I think ‘lose the dressing room’ is lazy and reductive, but you can see when players lose confidence in a plan and/or their ability to execute it. We look that way now.

This has carried over somewhat from last season too. Our best football came before the league cup final. We’ve been patchy at best for the better part of a year.

With INEOS coming in, it’s going to be very difficult for him. He’s not their guy and if we end up finishing 8th to 10th and the fans are as sedated and pissed off as they seem yesterday, they’re going to have a fairly simply decision.

He needs a very strong finish to the season. Both in terms of results and performance.

This and everything Gypers and Shenners have said basically.

It was an excellent first season, but let's not go overboard - we won the league cup. I don't really care we also 'got to a cup final', we're not Leicester, we should have higher standards than that. And top four, yes great. The absolute bare minimum.

What has followed has been an absolute mess. I still want him to get more time because he's had a load of nonsense to deal with, off-field stuff, daft injuries, poor fashion sense, etc. And because there's nobody else it's worth ripping everything up for - again.

League cup was weird, thought was mainly ironic celebration and we were just looking forward to a return of better days, then it became like a serious achievement and we seemed to have gone backwards ever since. Sevilla was the point I think we might look back on as the moment we first knew deep down it might not work out at all