ETH surveillance 22/23

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

You can't be serious

That’s my qualm. If this is where we should be, then we should be happy with the play, style and results we are getting, and there’s only the change to how we are run off the pitch that should be of concern.

Obviously, this is absolute nonsense.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Because he overachieved. This is nearer to where we should be, based on how we’re run

We’re a shit show. We’ve got rain pouring through the roof and we’re poisoning the VIPs. We’re spiralling into debt, we hire the chancers and bean counters in senior football positions and lurch from one approach to another: either giving managers no freedom or expecting them to do everything. Signing ailing stars or cheap punts. Going from Scots line Fergie, to a coaches coach, to a pragmatist, to someone who ‘get us’ and now ETH.

All this while the club is up for sale and there’s literally zero communication about what is going on.

I’d say 8th in the league is about right for a horrifically run big club.

Saying this does not mean that Ten Hag isn’t making mistakes or could be doing better. He is and he should, but there’s a ceiling on just how much better we can be, and ten years of failure under various managers suggests as much. None have mounted a title challenge. None have sustained any quality past isolated, flirtatious seasons and all have hit the wall anywhere between 2 and 3 years in.

Criticism of ETH is perfectly valid, but IMO I’ll always find it hard to go full in on the manager as long as this ownership owns. and the more managers that fail at similar points, the more that feels right.

Green everywhere. Another of these posts that should just be made a sticky after every loss until we get proper ownership.

Originally Posted by Finport Red

That’s my qualm. If this is where we should be, then we should be happy with the play, style and results we are getting, and there’s only the change to how we are run off the pitch that should be of concern.

Obviously, this is absolute nonsense.

It certainly is. It’s also not what’s being said.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Are you doing a Finport here?

Where Manchester United (the name) should be and where Manchester United ( the reality of how we’re run) should be are two very different things

Plenty of managers are getting a lot more out of a lot less, West Ham are not a better run club than we are. No-one is negating that the owners and the structure is bad but even putting that aside by every possible metric the manager is failing this season. His selection, tactics and coaching are woeful to non-existent, the performances and results are attrocious. I'm not even calling for him to be sacked but there is not a single positive from this season and on the evidence of the last five months nothing to suggest he should get another year.

as badly as what’s going on, the players are not as bad as how we are performing and that’s on the manager.

he picks the team
He trains the team which brings into question the amount of injuries we have. It’s not just being unlucky. It’s his training.
malacia as shit as he is hasn’t even turned up this season.

How can we be worse than before he joined.

We talk about standards but no big club would put up with the shit we’ve seen this season .
played 18 lost 8 in the league
Played 6 lost 4 in the champions league
knocked out of Europe and carling cup before Xmas
18 goals scored in 18 games in the league, 20 conceded.
Not one notable performance this season or one convincing win against a decent team…
no improvements from last season


But yeah all he needs a director of football.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Plenty of managers are getting a lot more out of a lot less, West Ham are not a better run club than we are. No-one is negating that the owners and the structure is bad but even putting that aside by every possible metric the manager is failing this season. His selection, tactics and coaching are woeful to non-existent, the performances and results are attrocious. I'm not even calling for him to be sacked but there is not a single positive from this season and on the evidence of the last five months nothing to suggest he should get another year.

So, 7th then?

As for the rest, said as much in my initial post earlier

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

It certainly is. It’s also not what’s being said.

Was a reply to you, but not directly a dig at you mate.

The performances recently have become inexcusable. While nobody likes losing, it’s nice to be able to say you enjoyed the game and with a bit of luck, or a few chances had gone our way, the result would have been different. However, we are bereft of ideas, have no creativity, no intensity, senior players who don’t seem to care and, with every week where this continues, the remaining confidence ebbs more and more from the players.

It’s all a bit of a shambles, but if the club is so badly run that we can expect to stay in 8th position until that changes, then it doesn’t matter if we change the manager or not.

Personally, I would rather the manager changed than we change the manager. He needs to accept responsibility for everything hes getting wrong, and address it. Starting with The Scottish Player.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Because he overachieved. This is nearer to where we should be, based on how we’re run

We’re a shit show. We’ve got rain pouring through the roof and we’re poisoning the VIPs. We’re spiralling into debt, we hire the chancers and bean counters in senior football positions and lurch from one approach to another: either giving managers no freedom or expecting them to do everything. Signing ailing stars or cheap punts. Going from Scots line Fergie, to a coaches coach, to a pragmatist, to someone who ‘get us’ and now ETH.

All this while the club is up for sale and there’s literally zero communication about what is going on.

I’d say 8th in the league is about right for a horrifically run big club.

Saying this does not mean that Ten Hag isn’t making mistakes or could be doing better. He is and he should, but there’s a ceiling on just how much better we can be, and ten years of failure under various managers suggests as much. None have mounted a title challenge. None have sustained any quality past isolated, flirtatious seasons and all have hit the wall anywhere between 2 and 3 years in.

Criticism of ETH is perfectly valid, but IMO I’ll always find it hard to go full in on the manager as long as this ownership owns. and the more managers that fail at similar points, the more that feels right.

Spot on.

Broken record etc but who? Who can come in and achieve with this lot?

Are we really saying let’s take a punt on a Brighton manager who’s won £#%&! all or a former Brighton manager who’s also won £#%&! all?

With this set-up? Clowns who value a player at 25 million, panic and buy him for 80 million instead?

Resetting everything to zero and hoping for the best?

I mean ok, I guess it could work… maybe? To me it just sounds like more of the same, another spin on the Wheel of Shit that United has become.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Plenty of managers are getting a lot more out of a lot less, West Ham are not a better run club than we are.

west ham are shit and were shit today.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Plenty of managers are getting a lot more out of a lot less, West Ham are not a better run club than we are. No-one is negating that the owners and the structure is bad but even putting that aside by every possible metric the manager is failing this season. His selection, tactics and coaching are woeful to non-existent, the performances and results are attrocious. I'm not even calling for him to be sacked but there is not a single positive from this season and on the evidence of the last five months nothing to suggest he should get another year.

Right.

I can only assume this chronic inability to separate separate issues is deliberate. Then you have to question motive.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Spot on.

Broken record etc but who? Who can come in and achieve with this lot?

Are we really saying let’s take a punt on a Brighton manager who’s won £#%&! all or a former Brighton manager who’s also won £#%&! all?

With this set-up? Clowns who value a player at 25 million, panic and buy him for 80 million instead?

Resetting everything to zero and hoping for the best?

I mean ok, I guess it could work… maybe? To me it just sounds like more of the same, another spin on the Wheel of Shit that United has become.

Exactly. And saying that isn’t excusing ETH. He should be doing better. He already has done better.

Someone could come in and do better… But I have no faith they would do that much better and not for any great amount of time.. They might do well initially or have one good season - something like that - but they would eventually hit the wall. Whether that’s after a year, two or three.

And that’s not just speculation. We have five examples, all very different men hitting very similar problems

Oh, and they all come out years later to bemoan what a shit show we are

And thinking “it will be different this time” just shifts the ultimate responsibility

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

I can only assume this chronic inability to separate separate issues is deliberate. Then you have to question motive.

You think they’re seperate. I don’t. 🤷‍♂️

I’m not reducing a difference of opinion to ‘questioning motives’ though

https://x.com/cr7slegacy/status/1738566691359989867?s=46&t=V_rEHns4n2KM8_MGvd9NWg

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

So, 7th then?

As for the rest, said as much in my initial post earlier

Yes you did, then contradicted yourself by saying 8th is about right. We should be higher up the table with the squad we have, even if you think we belong in 8th there is no reason we can’t look well coached or good to watch.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

You think they’re seperate. I don’t. 🤷‍♂️

I’m not reducing a difference of opinion to ‘questioning motives’ though

Well conflation certainly doesn't help arrive at the truth mate, it's just an endless game of hot potato.

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

Well conflation certainly doesn't help arrive at the truth mate, it's just an endless game of hot potato.

Tell me more about this game Hot Potato. It already sounds considerably more interesting than watching us at the minute.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Yes you did, then contradicted yourself by saying 8th is about right. We should be higher up the table with the squad we have, even if you think we belong in 8th there is no reason we can’t look well coached or good to watch.

Well, we could be higher than by simply drawing today, but it wouldn’t change the overall standard of where we are. If we looked well coached or good to watch, we’d likely be higher than 8th.

The point, and I really think you know this and I’m surprised you highlighted it, is that we are where we are overall because of how badly we are run. Our lowly position, which is unacceptable for a club like Manchester United, is a result of the lowering of the standard that the owners have allowed

It’s not unusual anymore. We really are reaping what we sow.

Originally Posted by Chris Quayd

Plenty of managers are getting a lot more out of a lot less, West Ham are not a better run club than we are

They aren't run brilliantly no, but really?

Manchester United is, almost indisputably, currently the worst run club in the Premiership - and quite likely in the top 10 of awfulness for all professional clubs in England (even though several horrors are to be found in the lower leagues) We have become a dividend factory for our parasitic owners - and literally NOTHING else.

he speaks like a loser

Originally Posted by Sheik JaBooty

Well conflation certainly doesn't help arrive at the truth mate, it's just an endless game of hot potato.

It’s not conflation either. Seperate issues, conflation… your presenting premises as conclusions.

I’ve explained why I believe the ownership and poor performance are not separate issues and why they’re intrinsically linked. If you don’t agree, that’s fine. I think we both agree on what we see and that it’s not ok, we just don’t agree on why that is. At least not on proportion of blame.

Can we at least end on both admitting that we’re throughly pissed off with it all? It’s at least taken us past 5pm and I can have a pint 👍

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Well, we could be higher than by simply drawing today, but it wouldn’t change the overall standard of where we are. If we looked well coached or good to watch, we’d likely be higher than 8th.

The point, and I really think you know this and I’m surprised you highlighted it, is that we are where we are overall because of how badly we are run. Our lowly position, which is unacceptable for a club like Manchester United, is a result of the lowering of the standard that the owners have allowed

It’s not unusual anymore. We really are reaping what we sow.

You accepted that the manager was failing by every possible metric but you also think 7/8th is our level, I didn’t think it needed pointing out but if the manager was doing a great job despite the structure above him we would be higher up the table and could even be a significantly better to watch.