Official Match Thread .. Southampton V Man Utd ..7:45PM Sky Sports

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I felt at the end of last season he was good enough and ready enough to be a star this season. He's had a good month but based on the way the season has gone it probably would have been better to have given him the responsibility of top man. Would have been a risk, but the short term stop gap Zlat signing hasn't paid off, as well as he's done individually.

i disagree that it hasn't paid off. it's been a great signing in a number of ways, particularly shielding rashford and especially in phasing rooney out pretty seamlessly.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i disagree that it hasn't paid off. it's been a great signing in a number of ways, particularly shielding rashford and especially in phasing rooney out pretty seamlessly.

My point is I'm not sure Rashford needed it. Not revisionism either, as I could understand the Zlat signing but I felt after one of Rashford's performances towards the end of last season that he's ready. He needed some help. Mane would have possibly been an ideal addition, but I think Rashford is good enough already.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

My point is I'm not sure Rashford needed it. Not revisionism either, as I could understand the Zlat signing but I felt after one of Rashford's performances towards the end of last season that he's ready. He needed some help. Mane would have possibly been an ideal addition, but I think Rashford is good enough already.

Rashers himself saying he and others have benefited and will continue to benefit greatly from the year with Ibra

Exclusive Marcus Rashford interview: 'I will be a better Manchester United player for years thanks to Zlatan Ibrahimovic'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...-years-thanks/

Rashy fancying next season he will explode:

Rashford went more than six months without scoring in the league before a goal at Sunderland prompted a run of three in his past five matches but he felt he was developing all the time.

“His(Mourinho) influence on the younger players, especially, is fantastic,” Rashford said. “We want that to continue because he is making us into better players. Now, when I go to the left or right, I see it differently to how I pictured it last season. They are things I didn’t have naturally inside me. I didn’t feel uncomfortable in the wide role, but when something is different it takes a while to get used to it. For me the development has been going great all the way through. Next season I think I will have come across most situations that are going to occur.”

Originally Posted by Baron

You listen to these big overarching critiques, contrasting managerial philosophies, tactics and approaches, then you see Fellaini kick the ball out of play from ten yards.

Originally Posted by Baron

You can only be "allowed" to dominate if you want to dominate.

For example our possession at Anfield this season was much lower (12%) than last season. That's not because Klopp decided last year to let us have the ball. We tried to kill the game there this season as early as we could. This United side doesn't look to dominate the game the way we had previously. There was some risidual inclination to do so, but during the second half of the season the transition into sitting even deeper and waiting to spring the break is more evident.

33% possession at home to Celta isn't because they decided not to let us have it. It was because we didn't want it.

Mourinho's Real Madrid were a counter attacking side too btw.

Originally Posted by saffers

Rashers himself saying he and others have benefited and will continue to benefit greatly from the year with Ibra

Exclusive Marcus Rashford interview: 'I will be a better Manchester United player for years thanks to Zlatan Ibrahimovic'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...-years-thanks/

Rashy fancying next season he will explode:

Rashford went more than six months without scoring in the league before a goal at Sunderland prompted a run of three in his past five matches but he felt he was developing all the time.

“His(Mourinho) influence on the younger players, especially, is fantastic,” Rashford said. “We want that to continue because he is making us into better players. Now, when I go to the left or right, I see it differently to how I pictured it last season. They are things I didn’t have naturally inside me. I didn’t feel uncomfortable in the wide role, but when something is different it takes a while to get used to it. For me the development has been going great all the way through. Next season I think I will have come across most situations that are going to occur.”

He's benefitted greatly from Zlatan getting injured.

When he was fit Rashford ran the line and didn't score for six months.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

You can only be "allowed" to dominate if you want to dominate.

For example our possession at Anfield this season was much lower (12%) than last season. That's not because Klopp decided last year to let us have the ball. We tried to kill the game there this season as early as we could. This United side doesn't look to dominate the game the way we had previously. There was some risidual inclination to do so, but during the second half of the season the transition into sitting even deeper and waiting to spring the break is more evident.

33% possession at home to Celta isn't because they decided not to let us have it. It was because we didn't want it.

the celta vigo numbers are very misleading though. we had 45% in the 1st leg. in the 2nd we already had the lead. we then scored early doors and sat back a bit to try and pick them off. then towards the end we didn't need to do anything until they scored. at which point obviously we parked it completely.

in other words possession stats do not necessarily reflect the course of a match.

this season at anfield we had 35% of the ball and 7 shots to their 9. we had 1 shot on target but didn't score, though zlatan missed a sitter.

last season we had 1 shot on target and won 1-0 with 47% of the ball and 7 shots to their 19.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the celta vigo numbers are very misleading though. we had 45% in the 1st leg. in the 2nd we already had the lead. we then scored early doors and sat back a bit to try and pick them off. then towards the end we didn't need to do anything until they scored. at which point obviously we parked it completely.

in other words possession stats do not necessarily reflect the course of a match.

this season at anfield we had 35% of the ball and 7 shots to their 9. we had 1 shot on target but didn't score, though zlatan missed a sitter.

last season we had 1 shot on target and won 1-0 with 47% of the ball and 7 shots to their 19.

Possession stats don't tell you how well you played, but they tell you how you played.

Shot stats are far more ambiguous. Teams with few ideas can take on plenty of shots.

Originally Posted by NegativeNorris

Try looking at the bigger picture, rather than the two tin pot trophies we may win.
Our football is the worst out of anybody in the top half of the prem. We have a manager that is terrified to lose a game, so insists on having everybody defending, rather than doing the jobs they should be doing. We're about 500 points behind Chelsea. Just look at our record against the other top 6 sides.

If we lose on Wednesday, just watch all the calls for Mourinho's head.

We would have been 506 points behind Chelsea if we didn't muller them.

Look at the rentboys and vermin's records in the league in the last few games before they won in Europe. It's what teams do when there is £#%&! all else to play for.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Possession stats don't tell you how well you played, but they tell you how you played.

Shot stats are far more ambiguous. Teams with few ideas can take on plenty of shots.

possession stats don't tell you how you played, they tell you who officially had the ball and how long for in total. pointless in roughly 95.8% of times they're quoted.

shots at goal usually tell you more about the actual flow of a game. ours are on the right in that 1-0 smash and grab last season.

Of their 19 shots I make it 12 hopeful hits from distance..

Originally Posted by dunk

Of their 19 shots I make it 12 hopeful hits from distance..

that's a real talent you have there.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

that's a real talent you have there.

Which is proof of nothing beyond a predeliction for hopeful punts should half an opportunity arise.

Originally Posted by dunk

What can I say, watched his Chelsea team too many times

Did you watch them much when they set what remains a PL points record, losing just a single game.

That 2004-07 side maybe just edges out the 1997-99 era Arsenal as our most formidable adversaries. And yes they could play football a bit, too.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Did you watch them much when they set what remains a PL points record, losing just a single game.

That 2004-07 side maybe just edges out the 1997-99 era Arsenal as our most formidable adversaries. And yes they could play football a bit, too.

Yes. They were cynical, efficient and loved a set piece. Boring as £#%&!.

Originally Posted by dunk

Yes. They were cynical, efficient and loved a set piece. Boring as £#%&!.

They could win ugly for sure, but if you think that's all they did you're kidding yourself.

Originally Posted by dunk

Which is proof of nothing beyond a predeliction for hopeful punts should half an opportunity arise.

they're discs on a green backdrop. it's impossible from that to determine whether or not they were hopeful punts. one of them was the best shot of the game. you might as well say arie haan was the master of long hopeful punts. or nelinho.

we retreated in that game from what i recall. just like we did in the juanfield game. this season we were widely condemned for the performance at anfield but for me it was almost the perfect away game up to about 60 minutes (iirc) when zlatan blew it. we pretty much controlled it and played much of the first half on the front foot inside their half.

basically possession stats are usually meaningless. even in barcelona games they don't tell you much these days, since most teams begin with the clear intention of capitalising on the potential weaknesses of that plan.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

possession stats don't tell you how you played, they tell you who officially had the ball and how long for in total. pointless in roughly 95.8% of times they're quoted.

shots at goal usually tell you more about the actual flow of a game. ours are on the right in that 1-0 smash and grab last season.

Which is a large indication of how you play. Obviously high possession usually comes from playing out from the back and trying to dominate the game. Hence if you look at the average team possession across a season it correlates very strongly with which teams push higher up and which teams drop off and/or play more directly. Anyway, open to interpretation/manipulation I guess.

Speaking of which, I remember last season when people couldn't wait to post stats about how we passed the ball sideways and backward more than any team in the league. Obviously negating to mention that Barca and Bayern have the same status in their league, and Allardyce's Sunderland and Pulis' West Brom were in competition for the most forward passes.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Which is a large indication of how you play. Obviously high possession usually comes from playing out from the back and trying to dominate the game. Hence if you look at the average team possession across a season it correlates very strongly with which teams push higher up and which teams drop off and/or play more directly. Anyway, open to interpretation/manipulation I guess.

Speaking of which, I remember last season when people couldn't wait to post stats about how we passed the ball sideways and backward more than any team in the league. Obviously negating to mention that Barca and Bayern have the same status in their league, and Allardyce's Sunderland and Pulis' West Brom were in competition for the most forward passes.

tbf the reason we were in competition for forward passes with those sides was because we could barely get over the halfway line without going straight back to smalling again unless we by-passed midfield

is there any data on the number of times throb mentions smalling?