Farewell Sweet Tulip .. Louis announces his retirement

Originally Posted by believe

Mate.....

Wait till Blind is sold, I'm having a sabbatical

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Mate.....

Wait till Blind is sold, I'm having a sabbatical

Now there's an example of opinion over the team..

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

Mate.....

Wait till Blind is sold, I'm having a sabbatical

Great. Can you remove me from your pm favourites please.

Swap samir nasri for lvg

https://vine.co/v/MjaA1Zd2IY3

Originally Posted by saffers

Swap samir nasri for lvg

Marlo would be £#%&!ing delighted

Originally Posted by dunk

Now there's an example of opinion over the team..

What do you mean.....

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

So struggled in the big games and no really standout performances otherwise either?

In all seriousness I agree in the Rooney point. One of the two major squad/structural things I think Mourinho has done (getting Pogba the other) is to take the team away from Rooney. Before Bunks and Believe spark me out, that doesn't mean he has to leave the club or cannot start any more games, but his role had to be reduced. Right up until Wembley last May, it was Rooney's team.

We know from listening to Wazza that he fully intended that his last three years of contract would see him fall back into a midfield position. He was practically forcing that on the manager last year. Mourinho killing that stone dead with his pre-season declarations that this was out of the question, and his subsequent gradual reduction of Rooney's participation, has been extremely well done.

I got the sense there was a little early check for Carrick, too. Very much taking down the old guard and making Zlat and Pogba the new big personalities. He's managed those situations expertly. Now when you think of the leaders of the side, they're Mou's boys.

Agree but it's been more than just that. I sense there a greater freedom in the way we play and that's encouraged more positive responses from players and fans alike. But we haven't played as well as we did when we played Liverpool away under van gaal for example and it's a bit of a mystery why not. We've been the better side in most of the matches I've seen apart from city at home and Chelsea away. Liverpool away was decent imv but not great at home.

Importantly, I think we're getting better, as I thought after van gals 1st season.

Originally Posted by My Name is Keith

Agree but it's been more than just that. I sense there a greater freedom in the way we play and that's encouraged more positive responses from players and fans alike. But we haven't played as well as we did when we played Liverpool away under van gaal for example and it's a bit of a mystery why not. We've been the better side in most of the matches I've seen apart from city at home and Chelsea away. Liverpool away was decent imv but not great at home.

Importantly, I think we're getting better, as I thought after van gals 1st season.

We were almost always the better side last year. Just too often with not enough cutting edge. Second half of last season really wasn't that bad, though.

There is greater freedom and certainly vibe. It's a reversion to a more basic style where we go back to front more quickly, something we didn't do enough against cannon fodder at OT last year. Helps to have better players and Dunk's right to say Zlat and Pog have been vital.

My concern is that we're still not really building a team. I had the same worries after our great run in spring '15. Yeah it was great but it was done with Fellaini, Carrick, Young, Rooney. There wasn't much long term about it. Similarly now, we're starting with Rojo/Jones, with Valencia and Darmian full-backs. Carrick in midfield; Zlat up top. It's still quite stopgap.

Feels right now that Pogba is the main outfield player we are building around. Everything else still to be figured out.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

We were almost always the better side last year. Just too often with not enough cutting edge. Second half of last season really wasn't that bad, though.

There is greater freedom and certainly vibe. It's a reversion to a more basic style where we go back to front more quickly, something we didn't do enough against cannon fodder at OT last year. Helps to have better players and Dunk's right to say Zlat and Pog have been vital.

My concern is that we're still not really building a team. I had the same worries after our great run in spring '15. Yeah it was great but it was done with Fellaini, Carrick, Young, Rooney. There wasn't much long term about it. Similarly now, we're starting with Rojo/Jones, with Valencia and Darmian full-backs. Carrick in midfield; Zlat up top. It's still quite stopgap.

Feels right now that Pogba is the main outfield player we are building around. Everything else still to be figured out.

Agree with that but tbf to Mourinho, he can't change everything in such a short time. Rojo & Jones were forced upon him because of injuries and performed very well. Like everyone else he knows Carrick has to be replaced, Darmian won't be his long-term left back and Zlat only has 18 months left.

Just enjoy/embrace the ride

Originally Posted by saffers

Swap samir nasri for lvg

https://vine.co/v/MjaA1Zd2IY3

Come along way since the last king of Scotland

perfect timing returning as we are one by one flushing the shit LVG signed when he was manager.....

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

We were almost always the better side last year. Just too often with not enough cutting edge. Second half of last season really wasn't that bad, though.

There is greater freedom and certainly vibe. It's a reversion to a more basic style where we go back to front more quickly, something we didn't do enough against cannon fodder at OT last year. Helps to have better players and Dunk's right to say Zlat and Pog have been vital.

My concern is that we're still not really building a team. I had the same worries after our great run in spring '15. Yeah it was great but it was done with Fellaini, Carrick, Young, Rooney. There wasn't much long term about it. Similarly now, we're starting with Rojo/Jones, with Valencia and Darmian full-backs. Carrick in midfield; Zlat up top. It's still quite stopgap.

Feels right now that Pogba is the main outfield player we are building around. Everything else still to be figured out.

Agreed. Good post.

I think the last part is merely because he's only been here six months.

He's getting the best out of the likes of Jones, Mata, Rojo, Carrick, but they're clearly not his players and I expect them all to be phased out/have their roles reduced next season.

The influence of Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan and Bailly (before he was inured) is clear.

Expecting a new striker, new CB, new CM next season. Spine

Originally Posted by marlo

perfect timing returning as we are one by one flushing the shit LVG signed when he was manager.....

Mate you'll have to get rid of more than just the players to erase the Big Man's imprint.



Unlucky.

Originally Posted by jem

the difference between this year and last is that this year it is frustrating that we miss chances, whereas last year it was frustrating watching us play. jo mo has been shit in big games, though, whereas king louis was always up for them.

Of course, last season there were times when we created one chance all game. Missing chances is less of an issue than not being able to create them in the first place, and a much more difficult thing to fix.

You can slate Mourinho, call him a chequebook manager, but at least he shops at the top end of the market. Griezeman, a mobile defensive midfielder, and more competition in the full-back areas will be make a huge difference to us. And I maintain the top attacking players would not want to play for a team renowned for playing stultifying football at a time when plenty of other teams are also paying big money, under a manager who it was widely perceived had seen his best days.

One of the most frustrating games I ever saw was at Stamford Bridge two years ago when we had 70% possession, and lots and lots of the ball outside Chelsea's box. But still had just one decent chance all game. I hated Mourinho that day, but he got his tactics spot-on.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Agreed. Good post.

I think the last part is merely because he's only been here six months.

He's getting the best out of the likes of Jones, Mata, Rojo, Carrick, but they're clearly not his players and I expect them all to be phased out/have their roles reduced next season.

The influence of Pogba, Zlatan, Mkhitaryan and Bailly (before he was inured) is clear.

Expecting a new striker, new CB, new CM next season. Spine

It's partly that. It's also partly because, for example, Blind is not his kinda guy as a centre-back. But it's also because he hasn't always shown the same emphasis on the young players. We expected both Shaw and Martial to be fixtures in the side. Obviously Rashford has been reduced in his involvement, so much of the younger basis of the team has changed. As expected when managers change.

For me it's vital to excuse the more short-term approach that we finish top four. If the progress of some of the younger players has been delayed, then you're only vindicated in that if you get the short term benefits. Personally I see no reason why we can't both get Shaw and Mensah involved, put consistent faith in Martial and finish top four.

DDG, Mensah & Bailly (if they prove they're good enough), Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford. That's the basis of an interesting young side.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's partly that. It's also partly because, for example, Blind is not his kinda guy as a centre-back. But it's also because he hasn't always shown the same emphasis on the young players. We expected both Shaw and Martial to be fixtures in the side. Obviously Rashford has been reduced in his involvement, so much of the younger basis of the team has changed. As expected when managers change.

For me it's vital to excuse the more short-term approach that we finish top four. If the progress of some of the younger players has been delayed, then you're only vindicated in that if you get the short term benefits. Personally I see no reason why we can't both get Shaw and Mensah involved, put consistent faith in Martial and finish top four.

DDG, Mensah & Bailly (if they prove they're good enough), Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford. That's the basis of an interesting young side.

so just more games for rashers and Mensah then ? you left of lingard as well. Shaw is a @#%&! boy

Originally Posted by plopborsky

so just more games for rashers and Mensah then ? you left of lingard as well. Shaw is a @#%&! boy

Shaw is a fantastic talent, hopefully nothing serious with him. I dunno what Mensah has done wrong not to get a sniff though.

I do think Mou will try and get them all going btw. Last thing he'll want is to let youngsters go and see them do great elsewhere.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's partly that. It's also partly because, for example, Blind is not his kinda guy as a centre-back. But it's also because he hasn't always shown the same emphasis on the young players. We expected both Shaw and Martial to be fixtures in the side. Obviously Rashford has been reduced in his involvement, so much of the younger basis of the team has changed. As expected when managers change.

For me it's vital to excuse the more short-term approach that we finish top four. If the progress of some of the younger players has been delayed, then you're only vindicated in that if you get the short term benefits. Personally I see no reason why we can't both get Shaw and Mensah involved, put consistent faith in Martial and finish top four.

DDG, Mensah & Bailly (if they prove they're good enough), Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford. That's the basis of an interesting young side.

Again, agreed (it's storming comeback so far! )

Each new season after Fergie feels a bit different to the last. It feels (only in my opinion ) that missing top four this year wouldn't feel as bad as last. Having got there two years ago, we were expected to progress under lvg and kick on. In a season where Chelsea bombed and leicester topped it all, I think it's fair to say in simple leave placings, we didn't.

The feel around the club at the summer was one of boredom. As divisive as lvg was (I love the guy. I really do. It was just too shit imo), I never thought he was hated in the what Moyes was. The fans just wanted some sparkle back. I think that's coming. The entertainment, anticipation and excitement seems to back. There's an appreciation that this might be tightest year yet for top four, so a degree of patience will be required as the new guys settle in and José decides what he wants to do with the 'maybe pile'. I think he's making do with players that aren't his better than Moyes and did. I think he trusts Rashford and Martial long-term and is prepared to let then find their feet bit by bit.

He made a lot of early mistakes, but they're few and far between now. The spirit is good. He sold some of the surplus and he's getting a rise out of everybody.

The flaws in the squad are still apparent, but we're getting there.

He's got the right combination of having a vision/philosophy/whatever but also knowing this league.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Again, agreed (it's storming comeback so far! )

Each new season after Fergie feels a bit different to the last. It feels (only in my opinion ) that missing top four this year wouldn't feel as bad as last. Having got there two years ago, we were expected to progress under lvg and kick on. In a season where Chelsea bombed and leicester topped it all, I think it's fair to say in simple leave placings, we didn't.

The feel around the club at the summer was one of boredom. As divisive as lvg was (I love the guy. I really do. It was just too shit imo), I never thought he was hated in the what Moyes was. The fans just wanted some sparkle back. I think that's coming. The entertainment, anticipation and excitement seems to back. There's an appreciation that this might be tightest year yet for top four, so a degree of patience will be required as the new guys settle in and José decides what he wants to do with the 'maybe pile'. I think he's making do with players that aren't his better than Moyes and did. I think he trusts Rashford and Martial long-term and is prepared to let then find their feet bit by bit.

He made a lot of early mistakes, but they're few and far between now. The spirit is good. He sold some of the surplus and he's getting a rise out of everybody.

The flaws in the squad are still apparent, but we're getting there.

He's got the right combination of having a vision/philosophy/whatever but also knowing this league.

There's absolutely no doubt about that. I do think that narrative was almost written in desperation before the season started anyway; let's be honest just about anything was going to go down better than last season. As a result, I think our play is a bit over-hyped, but that's okay as it's encouraging a positive vibe around the club. Results need to keep improving for that to be sustained though.

As for missing out on top four, I hear what you're saying although Mourinho has far better resources to achieve it than LvG did. That includes the faith of the supporters. Again, the second half of last season wasn't that bad, but the feeling of almost wanting the season over with was almost irreversible. And we did seem to get a bit of bad luck whenever we felt we'd turned a corner.

Right now we are in a much better position to improve, as everyone is pulling in the right direction. Just as they were in LvG's first year. At no club our size does a manager get so much good will. Consider that all three of the post-Fergie managers have been in unflattering league positions at this point in their first seasons, and all three could count on the support of the fans at that stage. Pretty unique