What can ETH do to get us out of this mess?

Originally Posted by AK14

Martinez and Shaw are big misses in attack and defence tbf.



Once we’re out of the champions league he’ll be gone imo.

Next week then

Not a fan of 'clear the air' meetings. Nothing good ever comes from them except for people griping about shit. Lay down the law. Tell the players this is what it is and if you're not on board you can find another club. Don't care who you are, what salary you are on, if you have a shit game/make no effort don't expect to play the next one.

But all of that is dressing, unless we really believe that the entire team is playing like a pub team because they don't like the way the manager does things. I'm not convinced.

Originally Posted by Lok

Start again.

Clear the air meeting, encourage players to speak out. Try and build some sort of unity and break down the factions.

Switch to a 352 possession based system now that we have a keeper to support it.

Onana

Maritez--Varane---Shaw

Mount---Cas---Bat---Mainoo--Rash

Bruno--
--Hoijland

That team should be able to keep the ball and the midfield should be enough to protect the back 3. Off the ball it can switch to a back 4 with Amrabat dropping in.

Bruno gets to play somewhere he's actually effective. Hoijland gets the support he needs.

Rashford and mount aren't ideal but the other options are even worse.

It would be too much for the majority of the dross in this league. We're not going to win a title any time soon but it's good enough for a top 4 finish.

I’m pretty much with this. He has to change the formation and where players play. He needs to experiment. He has nothing to lose now because if he does nothing, he’ll be gone anyway.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Next week then

Not a fan of 'clear the air' meetings. Nothing good ever comes from them except for people griping about shit. Lay down the law. Tell the players this is what it is and if you're not on board you can find another club. Don't care who you are, what salary you are on, if you have a shit game/make no effort don't expect to play the next one.

But all of that is dressing, unless we really believe that the entire team is playing like a pub team because they don't like the way the manager does things. I'm not convinced.

We tried that but we can't get rid of players because no other club in the world is daft enough to pay them what we do.

Take that french traffic cone up front for us last night. 2019 he was given a brand new £150k a week contract and in the last 3 and half years he's contributed a whopping 10 league goals.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

We tried that but we can't get rid of players because no other club in the world is daft enough to pay them what we do.

Take that french traffic cone up front for us last night. 2019 he was given a brand new £150k a week contract and in the last 3 and half years he's contributed a whopping 10 league goals.

Exactly. Action speak louder than words and the club has shown that you can indeed produce mediocrity with a shit attitude and be at the club for years. Not only that, you’ll get a pay rise.

This is why the Sancho situation is such a good example. If he worms his way back into the side or is here after ETH is gone, then it really does show that you can do and say whatever the £#%&! you want.

Originally Posted by Dr Stranger

Exactly. Action speak louder than words and the club has shown that you can indeed produce mediocrity with a shit attitude and be at the club for years. Not only that, you’ll get a pay rise.

This is why the Sancho situation is such a good example. If he worms his way back into the side or is here after ETH is gone, then it really does show that you can do and say whatever the £#%&! you want.

Yeah, maybe in a properly run football club where the established hierarchy are all singing from the same hymn sheet you can have that kind of 'tow the line or you're out' dialogue with players. But not here.

The manager's words won't carry much weight when the players know that in a few weeks he'll be canned when the CEO and bean counters start getting nervous. They know how to play the game, they know their collective worth and they know it's easier for the club to get rid of another manager than it is to start pulling out the weeds in the dressing room. And we all know this lot in charge will take the easy option every time.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I’ll be absolutely stunned if he manages to turn this around.

I fear we’re locked into that familiar tail spin now and it’s only a matter of time until we see the club do what they’ve done 4 times in the last 10 years.

Definitely. It's not happening.

We've had two 'Mark Robins' moments against Brentford and Copenhagen and we're not more inspired or any better. He's done and these players have once again done for him.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yeah, maybe in a properly run football club where the established hierarchy are all singing from the same hymn sheet you can have that kind of 'tow the line or you're out' dialogue with players. But not here.

The manager's words won't carry much weight when the players know that in a few weeks he'll be canned when the CEO and bean counters start getting nervous. They know how to play the game, they know their collective worth and they know it's easier for the club to get rid of another manager than it is to start pulling out the weeds in the dressing room. And we all know this lot in charge will take the easy option every time.

Yep.

You can’t preach ‘my way or the highway’ if it isn’t

We’ve seen this before. There’s shades of LVG in ETH. He’s meticulous and wants them playing a particular way that their poor little brains and bodies can’t handle.

There’s shades of Mourinho in terms of him being a disciplinarian. They didn’t like that because he was too mean.

We even gave them a ‘mate’ in Ole and the narrative then was that they didn’t trust his credentials.

All it takes is to point out a characteristic of the manager, voice some ‘concerns’ and wait it out. An easy consequence free gig.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Definitely. It's not happening.

We've had two 'Mark Robins' moments against Brentford and Copenhagen and we're not more inspired or any better. He's done and these players have once again done for him.

Yeah, for anyone who thought it was a case of the players needed a bit of a confidence boost or a 'turning point' that was quickly put to bed after those two results.

What is clearly happening here is a fundamental disconnect between the manager and his players. This is not just about confidence, although they all appear to be completely bereft of it, there's other things at work here. The biggest of all is that once again we see the players and manager pulling in different directions and that never ends well for the manager.

Ran the players into the ground last season. Awful recruitment decisions. A completely broke ‘system’ of playing football. Has never been able to set up the team to score goals; that issue has now been exacerbated to a laughably grim extent.

Short of Shaw, Varane & Martinez coming in and transforming the side (although we looked awful with them to start the season too), he’s done. Should not be sacked until Ratcliffe has made the DOF changes however: absolutely no point.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Yeah, for anyone who thought it was a case of the players needed a bit of a confidence boost or a 'turning point' that was quickly put to bed after those two results.

What is clearly happening here is a fundamental disconnect between the manager and his players. This is not just about confidence, although they all appear to be completely bereft of it, there's other things at work here. The biggest of all is that once again we see the players and manager pulling in different directions and that never ends well for the manager.

This.

A few games could be excused by injuries and an unsettled team, but not this level of abject performances.

Missing Martinez and Shaw isn’t THAT bad.

There isnt a single player playing well or any area of the team functioning at all. And they’re not even backing that up with hard work.

And it can get a lot worse. We can still go out the champions league. We are still yet to be on the end of a 5 or 6-0 job and the fans could yet turn on ETH. So far we’ve had booing at half time and any time Martial comes on/Hojlund goes off, but those will extend beyond that.

We play Galatasary on the 29th of November. We could be mathematically done in the CL after that. If that’s the case and we’re 10th or worse in the league then he’s in big trouble.

The club also has previous for sacking managers where there’s a kind run of fixtures for someone new too, so keep an eye on that fixture list.

The first thing he needs to do is point out to those £#%&!ing parasites hiding in Florida that if they are such brilliant businessmen, why the £#%&! are they running the biggest club in world football into the ground?

Either sell the club or £#%&!ing keep it but do it £#%&!ing NOW.
The constant press speculation about which potential manager will be appointed by which potential owner is never £#%&!ing ending.
That has to be impacting on the manager and the players. There has to be stability & it has to start from the top. Until it does, the current cycle will just continue.

Originally Posted by Fat Al

The first thing he needs to do is point out to those £#%&!ing parasites hiding in Florida that if they are such brilliant businessmen, why the £#%&! are they running the biggest club in world football into the ground?

Either sell the club or £#%&!ing keep it but do it £#%&!ing NOW.
The constant press speculation about which potential manager will be appointed by which potential owner is never £#%&!ing ending.
That has to be impacting on the manager and the players. There has to be stability & it has to start from the top. Until it does, the current cycle will just continue.

Absolutely.

It’s never been more stark in the premier league between which clubs are run well and which aren’t, resulting in Brighton & Hove Albion genuinely being better than us now.

Look at Newcastle: that line up last night was a whole lot of nothing. We all said beforehand that we should be winning. But they played like they usually do. Everyone pulling in the same direction. Owners with ambition, average players punching above their weight and outstanding players going to the next level. The club is absolutely buzzing and you can sense it. That comes from the ownership down.

Does anyone believe Eddie Howe would turn our fortunes around? Does anyone think he’s a better manager than ETH? Because if all it takes and the only answer is changing managers - as so many fans and pundits seem to think it is - then there’s about 10 managers in our league who would instantly make us better and solve most of our problems.

I love the idea of De Zerbi coming here. I really do. Someone nobody had heard of 12 months ago, being plucked from a club that is the polar opposite to us in every way. He’d do as well for us as Potter did for Chelsea.

It might have helped if he hadn't wasted most of his transfer budget on average players, who don't seem to fit into whatever system he uses.

I know the behind the scenes %@#$&!s with the ownership has been a mess, but he's still underperformed in every aspect of managing the team. From the players he's recruited, to whatever it is he's doing with tactics, and strategy. We're a mess, and he's played a part in making us one.

I can't see him turning it around, he would have started doing already if he was capable.

Every time it is about the shortcomings of the manager. If the Glazers are appointing someone who can't do the job that's on them. If the Glazers are appointing someone who *should* be succeeding but isn't then that is also something that should be in their in-tray and the reasons addressed. But they take no £#%&!ing responsibility and don't communicate with the support.

But here's the thing. They don't give a £#%&! if we win anything so long as top four happens. They don't care about the fans, the Club's history or sporting excellence. That vibes down to the entire setup.

And the only thing truly at fault here is the fan base. Fractured and indecisive from day one of the takeover.

Originally Posted by Lodestar

Every time it is about the shortcomings of the manager. If the Glazers are appointing someone who can't do the job that's on them. If the Glazers are appointing someone who *should* be succeeding but isn't then that is also something that should be in their in-tray and the reasons addressed. But they take no £#%&!ing responsibility and don't communicate with the support.

But here's the thing. They don't give a £#%&! if we win anything so long as top four happens. They don't care about the fans, the Club's history or sporting excellence. That vibes down to the entire setup.

And the only thing truly at fault here is the fan base. Fractured and indecisive from day one of the takeover.

Very low chance of top four. I don't fancy our chances of getting through to the next round of the CL either.

Originally Posted by VanHaaksbergen

Ran the players into the ground last season. Awful recruitment decisions. A completely broke ‘system’ of playing football. Has never been able to set up the team to score goals; that issue has now been exacerbated to a laughably grim extent.

Short of Shaw, Varane & Martinez coming in and transforming the side (although we looked awful with them to start the season too), he’s done. Should not be sacked until Ratcliffe has made the DOF changes however: absolutely no point.

Ran the players into the ground? With that fantastic, massive squad he had?

Also, you're talking like it's done that Ratcliffe or ANYONE is coming in. I'd forget about that until its actually announced.

There’s absolutely no chance he’s going to change his entire system and style of play based on a few bad results ffs.

Hopefully he sticks to his principles and rides it out. I do think he’s needs to look at how he’s utilising Bruno, we’re just not getting the best out of him right now.

We’ve got some winnable games coming up, so things could look very different in a few weeks time. I’ve got faith in the big man.

Originally Posted by Ethers

There’s absolutely no chance he’s going to change his entire system and style of play based on a few bad results ffs.

Hopefully he sticks to his principles and rides it out. I do think he’s needs to look at how he’s utilising Bruno, we’re just not getting the best out of him right now.

We’ve got some winnable games coming up, so things could look very different in a few weeks time. I’ve got faith in the big man.

How would you describe his 'entire system'?

He needs to play the players who want to play for the club first and foremost. Even if it means he has to drop hojlund tomorrow. If a player is not committed , and he will know who , do not play them.

Personally I think he is doing it with varane.

Second, I think he has to become pragmatic, maybe push back from his man marking system and make us hard to beat. It will be shit on a stick football, but if we stop conceding goals we can begin to play with confidence.

I also think he will have to change his system. This is tricky as we only really have one CF and these days one CM . His best bet is maybe to go to a 3-5-2/3-4-3 just to change something to get a response out of these @#%&!s .

Anybody in that team who doesn’t put the basic effort in is to get binned. It’s not a great team but we are playing rubbish.

I don’t think he will be given the time , I also think there are too many shit @#%&!s still in the dressing room to want to change things. We are already hearing cries of “being bang Sancho” despite him being rightly isolated.

You sack ETH, watch Sancho come back for a few games and the dressing room will know what to do.

Happened with Jose and pogba, Jose got the sack, pogba came in played some good games, then turned to shite, players downed tools

All of this however is negated if he isn’t backed by the board . The players need to know he will outlast them. The season is a write off. Maybe we can win the FA cup, but at the very least I hope he stays because it will signify a change of intent . Players will know they can’t just sit and wait out managers , maybe also along the way we get rid of some plastic “fans” who call for change at the first sign of adversity.

Irony , players seem to be reflecting the silly minority on social media, first sign of adversity “ ITS ETHS FAULT!” Despite the very same man getting 3rd and a cup last season. Of course ETH has made mistakes , with some signings and tactics , he’s human , but they’ve gone from 3rd and a cup to a mess. That’s damning on the players that they are capable of following his instructions somewhat.

Originally Posted by silv

How would you describe his 'entire system'?

You've got to hold and give
But do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast
But you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you
Defend and attack
There's only one way to beat them
Get 'round the back
Catch me if you can
'Cause I'm the bald Dutch man
And what you're looking at
Is the master plan