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Unread 05-04-2017, 05:05 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem

I find the idea that mkhitaryan, pogba and herrera (throw in mata, lingard, schweini, rooney...) are unable to take a player on or play intricate passes or shoot slightly preposterous.
but what has that to do with what i said? herrera is potentially far better than what he has shown since spring season 1. pogba has everything we need but hasn't developed yet...

neither fellaini nor carrick can solve the issue, carrick because of his age and fellaini because of his talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
See, in basic terms that isn't true as Mourinho is a far more basic tactician and coach. He has nowhere near Van Gaal's level of detail and complexity as a coach, so there will be far fewer instructions generally. But the point a lot of people miss is that Van Gaal's aim is to create automatism. Coaches like him want to train the players to be able to think fully for themselves, which for me is without doubt the best form of coaching if you can get it done, which can take a lot of time.

His wet dream is a scenario whereby he drills them so relentlessly that he barely has to open his mouth during the season. Mourinho, on the other hand, will always and want to be involved constantly. His idea is less clear because he's a pragmatist who adapts constantly, so the players will always need his guidance. It ends up being a more dependent style of management in the end.
of course, which is exactly why he has greater impact on young players and least on old dogs. part of the process is to departmentalise the pitch, which in theory means that each player should be able to clearly visualise and understand the requirements of whichever section they find themselves in, whether on their own or in combination with others in the same section.

this should, again in theory, help them organise their own positional changes relative to each another, so that the team act as one and automatically retain the shape and pattern.

there were times when it began to look as if the seeds were beginning to show, but they were fleeting, and each step backwards seemed to be to square one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberian
Teams have been parking the bus at OT for 25 years. It is nothing new and based on how easily the PL teams have been carved open in Europe I would hardly say that we are seeing a golden age of defending. Is there a CB in the league who would even be in discussion for a world 11?

Our attacking play is shit, relying on moments of individual quality rather than any definable structure.
teams have been parking it, nqat. but most teams in the PL used to have 2 or 3 players at best who were any good. these days most teams have at least 2 or 3 and usually more who are very capable of hurting even the top team in the division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Some may view it that way. Indeed Bielsa - a Van Gaal disciple - famously said that if football were played by robots, he'd win everything.

But the approach very often yields the best from flair players, such as Martial last season. It's a misconception that it's overly restrictive.

This is becoming an overstated point tbh. Yeah a few draws in Autumn United missed a shedload. In recent months - and especially across the last month - we've just played poorly. That's the main reason we haven't been winning enough matches.
van gaal's system absolutely depends on players being able to produce a bit of magic to break the lines. it wasn't the system that caused him to fail, it was the failure to get that system across well enough. also didn't help that he had a revolving door transfer policy, or that fellaini apparently understood the system better than anyone else and kept getting picked.

as far as results go, we haven't played as well lately that's for sure, but it's still curious that we've bagged plenty in the cups but very few in the league, despite the fact the chances have not really been any better.
 
Unread 05-04-2017, 06:50 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
but what has that to do with what i said? herrera is potentially far better than what he has shown since spring season 1. pogba has everything we need but hasn't developed yet...

neither fellaini nor carrick can solve the issue, carrick because of his age and fellaini because of his talent.



of course, which is exactly why he has greater impact on young players and least on old dogs. part of the process is to departmentalise the pitch, which in theory means that each player should be able to clearly visualise and understand the requirements of whichever section they find themselves in, whether on their own or in combination with others in the same section.

this should, again in theory, help them organise their own positional changes relative to each another, so that the team act as one and automatically retain the shape and pattern.

there were times when it began to look as if the seeds were beginning to show, but they were fleeting, and each step backwards seemed to be to square one.



teams have been parking it, nqat. but most teams in the PL used to have 2 or 3 players at best who were any good. these days most teams have at least 2 or 3 and usually more who are very capable of hurting even the top team in the division.



van gaal's system absolutely depends on players being able to produce a bit of magic to break the lines. it wasn't the system that caused him to fail, it was the failure to get that system across well enough. also didn't help that he had a revolving door transfer policy, or that fellaini apparently understood the system better than anyone else and kept getting picked.

as far as results go, we haven't played as well lately that's for sure, but it's still curious that we've bagged plenty in the cups but very few in the league, despite the fact the chances have not really been any better.
Yep, agree with all you've posted. I did find that the shape and certain aspects of what he wanted were there, enough for me to think it could be done with a bit more time and faith. But there was a regression in the middle part of last season amidst the injuries and confidence dive, when we became more pedestrian with not enough movement between the lines. It didn't look an LvG team.

Of course many of the usual rules of football still came into play, like injuries, missing chances and bad luck. People would have you believe we were never unlucky or never deserved more from games last year. I well remember last January we went to Newcastle and Chelsea away in the same week or so, and really deserved six points. Stoppage time goals meant we got two.

Ultimately many of the problems in this squad will affect any manager. The lack of leadership simply has to be addressed. You often hear people talking about Mourinho's teamtalks or ability to motivate the players etc, but in a proper dressing room the players almost do it themselves. I expect many a time Fergie got in at half time and found them tearing lumps off each other. The way it should be
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