How on earth is a Hargreaves + Carrick partnership supposed to take the team forward?

We need a Scholesy who can get goals and make things happen. Not a Hargreaves who will snap away at defenders and mids. or a Carrick who is a Pirlo style deep lying creative player - who is perhaps best described as a defensive mid to be honest.

One or the other is great, but both at once? Thats a bit lacking if you ask me.

If you think its to model after the Italy/Milan Pirlo/Gattusso thing, it suggests another change of formation to a diamond midfield or a 4-3-1-2, which I can't see happening.

In a nutshell WHAT THE £#%&! IS GOING ON FRED??

ronaldo, rooney, saha, giggs/nani?

carrick spraying passes.

hargreaves cutting out attacks.

do you need someone to open the ketchup bottle for you too?

Originally Posted by Camel

ronaldo, rooney, saha, giggs/nani?

carrick spraying passes.

hargreaves cutting out attacks.

do you need someone to open the ketchup bottle for you too?

so when its 0-0 vs Arsenal you'd be willing to take off Scholes and throw on Hargreaves or Carrick would you? You'd upset that balance?

you think Rooney, Ronaldo, Saha and Giggs can just make goals as long as you give them the ball then? where the £#%&! did nani come from?

Every team which plays 4-4-2 has one deep lying defensive mid and one thrusting attacking mid OR 2 box to box players. Do your homework lad.

Originally Posted by Luffy

so when its 0-0 vs Arsenal you'd be willing to take off Scholes and throw on Hargreaves or Carrick would you? You'd upset that balance?

you think Rooney, Ronaldo, Saha and Giggs can just make goals as long as you give them the ball then? where the £#%&! did nani come from?

Every team which plays 4-4-2 has one deep lying defensive mid and one thrusting attacking mid OR 2 box to box players. Do your homework lad.

United have NEVER had a deep lying mid in a 4-4-2 have they?

Originally Posted by Luffy

where the £#%&! did nani come from?

Pissed myself at that

Originally Posted by Luffy

so when its 0-0 vs Arsenal you'd be willing to take off Scholes and throw on Hargreaves or Carrick would you? You'd upset that balance?
i'd never replace scholes while he is showing form, but carrick will distribute the ball from cm as good as anyone else we've got atm
you think Rooney, Ronaldo, Saha and Giggs can just make goals as long as you give them the ball then? where the £#%&! did nani come from?
yes. and nani is just a rumour hence the ?. giggs won't be around forever. i'm using a jaded crystal ball, a bit like yourself
Every team which plays 4-4-2 has one deep lying defensive mid and one thrusting attacking mid OR 2 box to box players. Do your homework lad.
read my original post. your assessment of 4-4-2 is also rather simplistic

.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

United have NEVER had a deep lying mid in a 4-4-2 have they?

I suppose I forgot the 1 attacking and 1 box to box with a focus on defence. Oops. Thats extremely attacking though, we're now moving towards extremely defensive in the middle?

Hargreaves + Carrick as our main central pairing will not win us the champions league or premiership in years to come. Neither of them are special enough, Hargreaves is the Alan Smith of midfielders, Carrick is a poor mans Beckham or Veron.

Both good players, but they need better players alongside them to win things.

Originally Posted by Camel

.

your original post is £#%&!ing stupid.

seriously though, few teams have the players to play a good 4-4-2 now, if you study the ones who do - and do it well - you'll see what the minimum requirements are. I'm very worried we're after Hargreaves for the wrong reasons - UNLESS Fergie has it in his mind that we will not be playing 4-4-2 anymore.

Originally Posted by shadowplay

Pissed myself at that

well, that tends to happen when you are only 18 and can't interpret adult speak. i suggest you get some always ultra to line your pants.

Originally Posted by Camel

well, that tends to happen when you are only 18 and can't interpret adult speak. i suggest you get some always ultra to line your pants.

Ffs,mate.I agree with your posts on this thread.I was merely laughing at the way he £#%&!ing said that

Originally Posted by Luffy

your original post is £#%&!ing stupid.

seriously though, few teams have the players to play a good 4-4-2 now, if you study the ones who do - and do it well - you'll see what the minimum requirements are. I'm very worried we're after Hargreaves for the wrong reasons - UNLESS Fergie has it in his mind that we will not be playing 4-4-2 anymore.

what is so stupid?

the suggestion we actually might buy a winger. the fact that nani is a possibility.

you're the one who started all this hypothetical nonsence.

if you can't live with contradictory opinions i suggest you £#%&! off back to Fred Tissue or maybe just keep hunting for your wii you £#%&!ing dick.

you are the one stating we are playing 4-4-2 which i euphemistically suggested was simplistic. it's actually total %@#$&!s. but i wished to contribute to football themed thread and got abused by a know nothing £#%&!wit, so £#%&! you.

Originally Posted by Luffy

I suppose I forgot the 1 attacking and 1 box to box with a focus on defence. Oops. Thats extremely attacking though, we're now moving towards extremely defensive in the middle?

Hargreaves + Carrick as our main central pairing will not win us the champions league or premiership in years to come. Neither of them are special enough, Hargreaves is the Alan Smith of midfielders, Carrick is a poor mans Beckham or Veron.

Both good players, but they need better players alongside them to win things.

Sorry mate I don't agree at all and to sit here and say you can interprit players better than SAF is laughable. We all no he has made some bad ones but it has never been anything major (veron apart)

Carrick is and always will be extremely underrated IMO if you were to slide hargreaves into a defensive midfielder position carrick would have no choice but to move forward into a more attacking minded position and whilst he has the genius that is paul scholes next to him there is simply no one better he can learn from

The fact you compare carrick to veron and beckham points towards sheer ignorance on your part as beckham is and always will be a one of a kind, In my eyes there was no one better than beckham on the right wing he may not have had pace in abundance but he had the technique that others could only dream of veron on the otherhand had all the attributes to be a classic player but just lacked the phisque to cut it in England

all in all I can only see bright things for united there midfield especially if we do sign hargreaves we'll need to replace giggs eventually but that will come in time

Originally Posted by Camel

what is so stupid?

the suggestion we actually might buy a winger. the fact that nani is a possibility.

you're the one who started all this hypothetical nonsence.

if you can't live with contradictory opinions i suggest you £#%&! off back to Fred Tissue or maybe just keep hunting for your wii you £#%&!ing dick.

you are the one stating we are playing 4-4-2 which i euphemistically suggested was simplistic. it's actually total %@#$&!s. but i wished to contribute to football themed thread and got abused by a know nothing £#%&!wit, so £#%&! you.

haha chill out, I responded to your silly little "ketchup bottle" thing - if you're gonna dish it out, expect some back.

my 4-4-2 is far and away more complex and detailed than your £#%&!ing "hargreaves will tackle and carrick will spray it about" I mean what the £#%&! is that all about? Thats a good game plan is it? Give me a break mate.

I've posted a lot of "debate" regarding contrdictory opinions whereas you've posted nothing but criticisms of me and some vague description of the players. Well done cleverclogs.

Let me know when school teaches you how to have an adult debate.

Originally Posted by shadowplay

Ffs,mate.I agree with your posts on this thread.I was merely laughing at the way he £#%&!ing said that

don't £#%&!ing roll your eyes at me markkel.

you are usually above this sort of thing.

Originally Posted by Macca1990

Sorry mate I don't agree at all and to sit here and say you can interprit players better than SAF is laughable. We all no he has made some bad ones but it has never been anything major (veron apart)

Carrick is and always will be extremely underrated IMO if you were to slide hargreaves into a defensive midfielder position carrick would have no choice but to move forward into a more attacking minded position and whilst he has the genius that is paul scholes next to him there is simply no one better he can learn from

The fact you compare carrick to veron and beckham points towards sheer ignorance on your part as beckham is and always will be a one of a kind, In my eyes there was no one better than beckham on the right wing he may not have had pace in abundance but he had the technique that others could only dream of veron on the otherhand had all the attributes to be a classic player but just lacked the phisque to cut it in England

all in all I can only see bright things for united there midfield especially if we do sign hargreaves we'll need to replace giggs eventually but that will come in time

I said he was a poor mans Beckham as he's seen as a passer and a playmaker. His defensive game is under-rated, when he first cae we tried to play him as an attacking mid next to O'Shea, he was horrible until he started staying back and letting O'Shea run forward and we started ticking. He's what Beckham wanted to be for Madrid, a deep lying creative player.

Shame he hasnt shown any of the goal scoring ability of Pirlo or Ballack. I do think he is a good player, but we should be looking at a top class attacking player to partner him.

Originally Posted by Luffy

I said he was a poor mans Beckham as he's seen as a passer and a playmaker. His defensive game is under-rated, when he first cae we tried to play him as an attacking mid next to O'Shea, he was horrible until he started staying back and letting O'Shea run forward and we started ticking. He's what Beckham wanted to be for Madrid, a deep lying creative player.

Shame he hasnt shown any of the goal scoring ability of Pirlo or Ballack. I do think he is a good player, but we should be looking at a top class attacking player to partner him.

I notice you have not once pointed out who we should indeed be trying to sign but just saying a top class attacking midfielder,have you looked at the state of that position recently who the £#%&! are we gonna buy for the right money at that level get a grip son

Originally Posted by Luffy

haha chill out, I responded to your silly little "ketchup bottle" thing - if you're gonna dish it out, expect some back.

my 4-4-2 is far and away more complex and detailed than your £#%&!ing "hargreaves will tackle and carrick will spray it about" I mean what the £#%&! is that all about? Thats a good game plan is it? Give me a break mate.

I've posted a lot of "debate" regarding contrdictory opinions whereas you've posted nothing but criticisms of me and some vague description of the players. Well done cleverclogs.

Let me know when school teaches you how to have an adult debate.

i do expect some back. but not anything meaningful from someone who thinks hargreaves is a scholes replacement.

my description is vague because we don't play 4-4-2. the point is hargreaves will be expected to be the main enforcer, carrick the main creator. get it yet?

obviously, this assumes we will sign the canadian.

This is why I was confused we got Carrick. Its not as simple as pass the ball to others - job done. its about keeping things ticking, working the spaces and a lot of other stuff. not to mention goal threat.

Hargreaves and Carrick might have 3 goals in them per season and 5 assists if we're lucky. Neither are a threat in the air. To me it seems extremely lacking in options. When its 0-0 vs Sheffield and we cant £#%&!ing score, what will Carrick or Hargreaves do? Not a lot.

Not championship material I'm afraid. Who could we sign?

I'd have a look at Sneijder, and sniff around a few others.

Originally Posted by Camel

don't £#%&!ing roll your eyes at me markkel.

you are usually above this sort of thing.

Above rolling my eyes?

I posted the £#%&!er because you had a go at me

Originally Posted by Camel

i do expect some back. but not anything meaningful from someone who thinks hargreaves is a scholes replacement.

my description is vague because we don't play 4-4-2. the point is hargreaves will be expected to be the main enforcer, carrick the main creator. get it yet?

obviously, this assumes we will sign the canadian.

right ok, your football knowledge is overwhelming, good for you. We play 4-3-3 do we?