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Unread 08-04-2017, 05:34 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck
Fair points.

The collective is most important and Pochettino has a side coached to be greater than the sum of its parts.

I'm not sure how we'll get to that point when our current group is falling short and the only solution people have is "spend spend spend"

I'm a bit sick of that tbh.
Comes from the club down. The chequebook is their only answer. Until that changes, we won't fulfill our potential imo.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 05:42 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Comes from the club down. The chequebook is their only answer. Until that changes, we won't fulfill our potential imo.
I am in total agreement with you. We may see sporadic success but we won't get the sustained period of it like we want or had under Fergie.

The Glazers took over in 2005 and everything football related was delegated to Ferguson, everything went through him, he had the first and final word on everything. At no point it seems was there ever any clarity vision of what would happen when he called it a day. But then again that's what happens when you've got a family of american bandits in the boardroom.

I can't believe that Gill was allowed to walk away at the same time. The backroom staff, the manager and the chief exec all gone in one summer - completely ripped the guts out of the club.

It just seems we've become as someone on here said before " a low rent real madrid"
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 05:48 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
I am in total agreement with you. We may see sporadic success but we won't get the sustained period of it like we want or had under Fergie.

The Glazers took over in 2005 and everything football related was delegated to Ferguson, everything went through him, he had the first and final word on everything. At no point it seems was there ever any clarity vision of what would happen when he called it a day. But then again that's what happens when you've got a family of american bandits in the boardroom.

I can't believe that Gill was allowed to walk away at the same time. The backroom staff, the manager and the chief exec all gone in one summer - completely ripped the guts out of the club.

It just seems we've become as someone on here said before " a low rent real madrid"
While at least Real Madrid, by luck probably more than design, have guys like Ramos, Pepe and Marcelo who have been there a decade and Ronaldo, Benzema etc who have been there 7-8 years, and can handle the dressing room and bring some stability.

We've had the coaching staff, director role and playing staff all ripped out. And Ed Woodward left to fix it.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:04 PM
AK14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
I am in total agreement with you. We may see sporadic success but we won't get the sustained period of it like we want or had under Fergie.

The Glazers took over in 2005 and everything football related was delegated to Ferguson, everything went through him, he had the first and final word on everything. At no point it seems was there ever any clarity vision of what would happen when he called it a day. But then again that's what happens when you've got a family of american bandits in the boardroom.

I can't believe that Gill was allowed to walk away at the same time. The backroom staff, the manager and the chief exec all gone in one summer - completely ripped the guts out of the club.

It just seems we've become as someone on here said before " a low rent real madrid"
Exactly

Set us back a decade I'd say, especially when you consider the man now in charge of a lot of the footballing decisions is a hamster faced money man

We desperately need a director of football or what ever it is they're called.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:17 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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quite interesting to see people who spent season after season shouting for more and greater amounts of cash to spent on signing players now realising that it's building a team that sets managers and clubs apart.

there are very very few clubs like real madrid who can do it and win CL and world cups - even they struggled post galacticos.

talk about net spends, which accelerated and occupied so many peoples' flawed thinking on squad building post-ronaldo has been shown pretty clearly now to be complete turd. united were successful under fergie because he assembled a great balance of abilities and personalities. people slagging those individuals off for years as they did and as they still do are morons.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:29 PM
S/Side.Red
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
quite interesting to see people who spent season after season shouting for more and greater amounts of cash to spent on signing players now realising that it's building a team that sets managers and clubs apart.

there are very very few clubs like real madrid who can do it and win CL and world cups - even they struggled post galacticos.

talk about net spends, which accelerated and occupied so many peoples' flawed thinking on squad building post-ronaldo has been shown pretty clearly now to be complete turd. united were successful under fergie because he assembled a great balance of abilities and personalities. people slagging those individuals off for years as they did and as they still do are morons.
That can involve mass spending, of course. Milan under Sacchi/Capello were just about the best example of a proper collective, but they were going about breaking world transfer records for the likes of Gullit. But I agree with you, the bigger picture is what's important.

That said, I do think Ferguson's transfers during those latter years would have given even him a tough chance of rebuilding quickly as the last title-winning side aged. Great teams have great players; all ours needed replacing. But it was Fergie; he'd have found a way
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:37 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
That can involve mass spending, of course. Milan under Sacchi/Capello were just about the best example of a proper collective, but they were going about breaking world transfer records for the likes of Gullit. But I agree with you, the bigger picture is what's important.

That said, I do think Ferguson's transfers during those latter years would have given even him a tough chance of rebuilding quickly as the last title-winning side aged. Great teams have great players; all ours needed replacing. But it was Fergie; he'd have found a way
Ferguson didn't even bother to try and replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes carrick he just played them until their legs couldn't do any more. he didn't sign a central midfielder for 6 years ffs.

I think any United fan had more than a right to be pissed off at what happened in 2009. Sold the best player in the world and signed Obertan and Michael owen ffs. The fact that the team was on a steady downward trajectory since that point would also support the fact the critics had a point.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:45 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
De Gea. Maybe.

Other than that, none.

Tottenham are better than United in every single position on the pitch by a country mile, which will be confirmed when they hold us down and run a £#%&!ing train on us at their big 'final game at white hart lane' jamboree.

How £#%&!ing depressing is that.
it's very £#%&!ing depressing. but no more than any of your other posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Correct. Was having this argument on here recently, but there's a real fickleness at how people judge players. Suddenly just because they're playing better it means they have better players? Hard working guys like Rose and Walker are not better players than Shaw or Valencia. Dembele/Wanyama ffs not anywhere near the level of Pogba. Anyone who thinks Son has a fraction of what Martial has needs a lie down. Kane is a very good Premier League striker, but hasn't achieved anything compared to Zlatan. Mkhi > Eriksen btw.

But they are a team, with balance, a plan and clear common belief in that plan. And they have a bright manager who has been there a few years and has been able to build. These thing are far more relevant than the individuals, who are punching above their weight.
I agree, except that eriksen is their best player and what zlatan has achieved is irrelevant. he has never been as good as he thinks he is, but right now he's just a tank in an age of drones.

would we really take anyone from spurs? the coach. that's it. he'd soon have our players playing better than spurs. maybe one of their central defenders if we had to. but £#%&! off do they have better players than us.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:47 PM
Sparky***
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
it's very £#%&!ing depressing. but no more than any of your other posts.
Don't £#%&!ing read them then you coddled little @#%&!.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 06:49 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
That can involve mass spending, of course. Milan under Sacchi/Capello were just about the best example of a proper collective, but they were going about breaking world transfer records for the likes of Gullit. But I agree with you, the bigger picture is what's important.

That said, I do think Ferguson's transfers during those latter years would have given even him a tough chance of rebuilding quickly as the last title-winning side aged. Great teams have great players; all ours needed replacing. But it was Fergie; he'd have found a way
well i wasn't just referring to the squad he left but the way his process was slated and second guessed constantly post-ronaldo, even post-2005 ... but ok, let's look at the 2013 squad a bit closer then:

here's a potential XI for eg: de gea, rafael, jones, evans, evra, valencia, kagawa, cleverley, nani, welbeck, hernandez.

we also had van persie who was far from finished at that point - peaking if anything. and we had young forwards brady and king coming through, plus potentially tunicliffe, and wilson amongst others coming through behind them too.

we had smalling still yet to show his level fully, plus top class players in carrick and ferdinand still around the place. plus rooney of course. and vidic. plus greast pros like fletcher and young.

so it's a £#%&!ing good group, with plenty of nous and plenty of potential. and the balance is fine, with lots of scope for the new manager to put a mark on it directly through the spine.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:01 PM
jem
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky***
Don't £#%&!ing read them then you coddled little @#%&!.
turn it in, marvin.

 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:11 PM
dunk
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberian
Some of those comparisons are a little odd, almost as if Sparky is reaching to exaggerate the point. Never.

Kane-Zlat
Jansen-Rashford/Rooney
Son-Martial
Ali-Mata
Eriksen-Mikitaryan
Dembele-Pogba
Wanayama-Herrera
Dier-Carrick
Sissoko-Lingard
Lamela/Young
Winks-Fellaini
Alderwereld-Bailly
Vertonghen_Rojo
Wimmer-Smalling/Jones
Rose-Shaw
Davies-Blind
Walker-Valencia
Trippier-Darmian

Utd have far more depth.
I'll take the ones in bold, De Gea and Pochettino, ta. Plus a new RW and a new CB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Correct. Was having this argument on here recently, but there's a real fickleness at how people judge players. Suddenly just because they're playing better it means they have better players? Hard working guys like Rose and Walker are not better players than Shaw or Valencia. Dembele/Wanyama ffs not anywhere near the level of Pogba. Anyone who thinks Son has a fraction of what Martial has needs a lie down. Kane is a very good Premier League striker, but hasn't achieved anything compared to Zlatan. Mkhi > Eriksen btw.

But they are a team, with balance, a plan and clear common belief in that plan. And they have a bright manager who has been there a few years and has been able to build. These thing are far more relevant than the individuals, who are punching above their weight.
Spurs current position is no overnight thing. Patience in allowing players to grow up together, purchasing of potential and allowing it all to knit together. It's the future, who knew a bit of short term pain is the only way to long term success..?
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:24 PM
Whip Hubley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
Strange how they didn't confirm it when United beat them at Old Trafford, and in fact looked bang average.

Finding something depressing that hasn't even happened
New to sparky?


Utterly ridiculous concept for a thread by the way.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:27 PM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
New to sparky?


Utterly ridiculous concept for a thread by the way.
New to TFG?
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:28 PM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whip Hubley
New to sparky?


Utterly ridiculous concept for a thread by the way.
50 odd posts says it's a very good idea for a thread....
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:32 PM
Whip Hubley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
50 odd posts says it's a very good idea for a thread....
So a successful thread is based on the amount of replies it gets... interesting.... and does it count if half the posts are sparky having a £#%&!ing moan?


2 completely different teams who play in completely different styles. For a start, people are picking individuals based on their individual talent, and not players who would thrive in the system spurs play.


Dunk, throb and siders are all correct......
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 07:35 PM
jem
 
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so.... essentially.... quite a few of our players could easily get in the spurs team.

but we should cry about our actual game against spurs now. just in case we win.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 08:14 PM
gav81
 
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We have far and away a better quality team and squad than Spurs... but they are outperforming us.
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 09:01 PM
Part 36 Offer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlo
RAWK?

oh the irony .
What are you on about now lemonhead? Identify the irony in that comment then please?
 
Unread 08-04-2017, 09:02 PM
dunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gav81
We have far and away a better quality team and squad than Spurs... but they are outperforming us.
%@#$&!s, I'm afraid, hence they are out performing us yet again. And no, Roy Keane wouldn't have this group of players above Spurs, no £#%&!er would.
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