Team v Liz Dawn - The Official Thread

Right then I'm going with :-

VDS

Les
Rio
Vidic
Senegalese Superman

Carrick
Scholes

Ronnie
Rooney
Tevez

Saha

Don't expect that to be fair, think Giggs or possibly even Pique might start ahead of Rooney to make it more of a midfield 3. I do hope and expect Saha to play and think it's also very important he does as he is, when fit, as good a striker as there is in Europe imo and he also gives us a target to play of adding penetration to our play.

That thread title is one of your least funny moments ever.

Take Saha out and put Giggs in and you've got the team. Louis will have a twinge.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

Right then I'm going with :-

VDS

Les
Rio
Vidic
Senegalese Superman

Carrick
Scholes

Ronnie
Rooney
Tevez

Saha

Don't expect that to be fair, think Giggs or possibly even Pique might start ahead of Rooney to make it more of a midfield 3. I do hope and expect Saha to play and think it's also very important he does as he is, when fit, as good a striker as there is in Europe imo and he also gives us a target to play of adding penetration to our play.

It's a tough call tonight because there's really only Scholes and Carrick as recognised central midfielders and, given that this is away, Fergie would've liked the stability of a third. However, I can only see this third being Giggs because I can't see him going with the inexperienced Pique from the start in such a big game. Given that Fergie seems to like Evra in the midfield, there's an outside chance that Pique may be given a less high profile spot at LB with Evra offering a little more bite on the left of midfield, but that would be a real gamble.
I think Giggs experience will give him the nod and Fergie's caution re Rooney will see him on the bench.

So, I expect to see:

VDS

BROWN
RIO
VIDIC
EVRA

CARRICK
SCHOLES
GIGGS

RONNIE
TEVEZ
SAHA



But nothing suprises me anymore.

Originally Posted by TheNew

That thread title is one of your least funny moments ever.

Take Saha out and put Giggs in and you've got the team. Louis will have a twinge.

I'm proud of that title my friend.

Saha will difinitely start tonight and he'll be excellent.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

I'm proud of that title my friend.

Saha will difinitely start tonight and he'll be excellent.

You should put a bet on

1 dutch

2 longsight

3 serbia

4 @#%&!

5 frenchie

6 welsh boy

7 wheres maddy

8 that £#%&!ing tattoo

9 the geordie jaw

10 mr paul scholes

11 argentina

Not sure how Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Saha could play in the same team without either Rooney or Tevez being stuck out on the wing, which is something we've heard countless moans about over the last couple of years.

I think Nani may get a runout tonight.

I'll go for:

......................van der sar....................
brown......ferdinand........vidic...........evra
...............scholes.......carrick.............. ..
....ronaldo..............................nani..... ...
..................tevez......saha................. ...

Wazza to get a late runout; Saha to show if he's ready to play against Chelsea from the start.

Originally Posted by TheNew

That thread title is one of your least funny moments ever.

It's actually better than people still calling them Sporting Lisbon.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Not sure how Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Saha could play in the same team without either Rooney or Tevez being stuck out on the wing, which is something we've heard countless moans about over the last couple of years.

.

You can play them in a fluid 3 behind Saha, which is what I tried to emphasise in my selection. This way no-one gets "stuck" on the wing but rather the 3 get to interchange positions and find space where they can. Ithink this suits the players as Ronnie likes to drift across the forward line, Rooney often drifts out wide from a central position to find space and Tevez has often played wide left of a forward 3 for Argentina. I think it's actually the best way to make use of the taklent we have.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

You can play them in a fluid 3 behind Saha, which is what I tried to emphasise in my selection. This way no-one gets "stuck" on the wing but rather the 3 get to interchange positions and find space where they can. Ithink this suits the players as Ronnie likes to drift across the forward line, Rooney often drifts out wide from a central position to find space and Tevez has often played wide left of a forward 3 for Argentina. I think it's actually the best way to make use of the taklent we have.

We'll see, but I think if you're going to play a 4-2-3-1, the three players playing behind Saha would almost certainly work more effectively if two of them stretch the play by pulling out wide. I think Nani would be better off in this system than Tevez.

We've covered this before on this site but Tevez is a striker. That's where he should be played. If we're only a month into his United career and we're already trying to force him into uncomfortable positions, we really shouldn't have bothered signing him. It's anything but the best way to make use of his talent.

What the return of JC said. Although if O'Shea, Hargreaves or Fletcher were fit I would have expected one of them to play in midfield. Carlos Queiroz says he's gonna play it cautious donchaknow.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

We've covered this before on this site but Tevez is a striker. That's where he should be played.

He isn't though, he's a rather versatile player who can play off a striker, up front in a flat 2 or wide in a forward 3. I't's not asking him to play an uncomfortable role, rather it's giving him Rooney and Ronnie freedom to move where they want and where the space is.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

He isn't though, he's a rather versatile player who can play off a striker, up front in a flat 2 or wide in a forward 3. I't's not asking him to play an uncomfortable role, rather it's giving him Rooney and Ronnie freedom to move where they want and where the space is.

Tevez is a striker. It's where he's played most of his career and certainly where he's produced most of his best football. The popular myth about him being better suited to other positions/roles is unfortunate, but I have the hope that Fergie is actually a lot more familiar with the player he signed and will use him in the position in which he made his name.

If you're having three players behind Saha, two of them are naturally going to hold a wider position. Given that Tevez is indeed a striker, putting him into any wider position would be forcing him into an unnatural role, presumably because you prefer someone else upfront. If we wanted some kind of versatile attacking midfielder/forward who can switch into different positions behind a central striker, we should not have signed Tevez.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Tevez is a striker. It's where he's played most of his career and certainly where he's produced most of his best football. The popular myth about him being better suited to other positions/roles is unfortunate, but I have the hope that Fergie is actually a lot more familiar with the player he signed and will use him in the position in which he made his name.

If you're having three players behind Saha, two of them are naturally going to hold a wider position. Given that Tevez is indeed a striker, putting him into any wider position would be forcing him into an unnatural role, presumably because you prefer someone else upfront. If we wanted some kind of versatile attacking midfielder/forward who can switch into different positions behind a central striker, we should not have signed Tevez.

Bare with me, but are you saying Tevez is a lone front man?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

If you're having three players behind Saha, two of them are naturally going to hold a wider position. .

I fundamentally disagree with this. If you allow these players freedom, nobody has to "hold" any position. It's rather like a midfield 2 that workl properly, if one goes forward, the other holds. All you need is intelligence and good movement from the players to make this not ony work but also to be incredibly difficult to play against. I can't think of 3 more intelligent players with better movement than Tevez, Rooney and Ronnie. I think that sticking to a rigid formation and playing in straight lines restricts them and won't get the best out of the.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

Bare with me, but are you saying Tevez is a lone front man?

The point is more that he doesn't have to play behind anyone. He can play as the furthest man forward; as the focal point of the attack. Actually, it's not that he can do it, it's what he does.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

The point is more that he doesn't have to play behind anyone. He can play as the furthest man forward; as the focal point of the attack. Actually, it's not that he can do it, it's what he does.

I don't agree with that.

Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky

I don't agree with that.

Okay. If you're actually interested, here is a very well written post by Serenity, who has followed Tevez throughout his career and, as a Boca fan, saw his development pretty much from day one.

Originally Posted by Serenity Now

At every level in the Boca youth setup he was used as a centre forward, and his scoring record was excellent, but he first established himself in the Boca team just after Riquelme left. Boca were lacking a number ten, and because of his dribbling ability Tevez was seen by many, including Boca's manager Oscar Tabarez, as Riquelme's replacement; the new 10 of Boca.

He was never deployed as an playmaker as such, but he was played in the hole, just behind Guillermo Barros Schelotto (on the left) and Chelo Delgado (on the right). There was a degree of rotation among this trident, but in general Carlitos was the deepest of the three and had the greatest responsibility to get back and defend.

In this position he impressed everyone with his attitude, indeed this was a key reason for his massive popularity right from the start, and his talent was obvious, but it was only after Carlos Bianchi returned that he really started to look like a world beater.

Bianchi decided that Tevez was in fact a striker after all, and moved him up top in his favoured 4-3-1-2 system (sometimes 4-4-2 away from home) just in time for the knockout stages of the 2003 Copa Libertadores. Tevez went on to almost single handedly drive Boca towards the title with a string of stunning performances.

After that he continued to excel, guiding Boca to the 2003 Apertura title and being voted both Argentine footballer of the year by the Argentine sports writers and Rey del Fútbol de América (the most prestigious individual award in the Americas) by El Pais for both 2003 and 2004.

Tevez specialised in dribbling in tight areas, in playing on the shoulder of the defence during Boca's rapid counterattacks and at turning the defender after being fed the ball with his back to goal in and around the box. He also loved to drop out to the left, cut in past his man and fire off a shot.

Carlitos also went to the 2004 Olympics in Greece, where he was deployed as the focal point at the head of Marcelo Bielsa's Dutch style 3-4-3 system, with wing forwards on either side to stretch the field and Andres D'Alessando in behind as the playmaker. Tevez was the undoubted star of the tournament, winning a gold medal and finishing top scorer with 8 goals.

At the end of 2004 he made his move to Brazil. Here he was generally part of a front two in a 4-4-2, usually partnered by either Jo or Nilmar (after he signed). Initially the fans weren't sold on Carlitos and he made a slow start, but he exploded in the 2005 Brasileiro, winning the title for Corinthians, becoming captain of the club, a hero to the fans, finishing third top scorer with 20 goals and being voted best player in Brazil (quite something for a non Brazilian, and an Argentine at that!). He was also once again chosen as South American footballer of the year.

During his time at Corinthains, Tevez was definitely the creative force in the team and he also became more effective as a predatory striker.

I'm sure you saw him at the World Cup and playing for West Ham. One thing I will mention is that Pardew often deployed him on the left wing for some reason. Perhaps as a result of where Pekerman played him at the World Cup, I don't know. He tried very hard, but most of the time looked totally lost. It was only when he was moved up front alongside Zamora that he began to look the part again (which he did, even before he went on that scoring run).

So, I guess what I'm saying is that Tevez is a centre forward, either a 9 or an 11. He does like to drop deep and move to the flanks, particularly to the left (as mentioned before), but by nature he's not an attacking midfielder or a wing forward and he has always been most effective as a striker.

Personally, I believe he'll be an excellent signing. A lot of people seem to think his height will be an issue, and I agree it's not ideal, but most of our passes from deep are played into space anyway. Ronaldo is also an option for the deep ball.

As for his strengths; he's got good balance, he's a great exponent of the gambeta, his change of direction is superb, he's very direct, he works extremely hard, he can take free kicks and he'll participate very effectively in any counter attacks.

Carlitos is very capable of playing with his back to goal too. He's a strong lad and is able to hold the ball up very effectively, so providing the ball is played to him with some accuracy that shouldn't be a problem.

I think he has the character to play at a club like United too. Wherever he has been he has always played without fear. He's perhaps not the most stable of personalities, but he does seem to have mellowed quite a bit since the birth of his daughter. Besides, that's part of what makes him the player that he is.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Okay. If you're actually interested, here is a very well written post by Serenity, who has followed Tevez throughout his career and, as a Boca fan, saw his development pretty much from day one.

Yes and I agree with some of it. It's fair enough that he played in Brazil as a striker, that's a world away from playing it in Europe and as he said he played off a striker during the succesful period he had at West Ham. He also plays in a wider position for Argentina. This suggests that at the top level he is as I stated a versatile playeer who can as Serenity and I have said, play in a flat 2 up front, wide in a 3 or off a striker. In Europe he has neither the physique or pure pace to play alone up front, nor does that position takle full advantage of his vision and skill. As I said, I want him playing off a traget and given as much freedom, of movement as possible to express himself and use his abilities and I think the formation I suggested is the best wa to do that.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I

I'll go for:

......................van der sar....................
brown......ferdinand........vidic...........evra
...............scholes.......carrick.............. ..
....ronaldo..............................nani..... ...
..................tevez......saha................. ...

.

That's what I've gone with on t'other forum.

Rooney and Giggs bench warming just if they're needed. Fergie keeping one eye on Sunday.