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View Poll Results: Nail your colours to the mast
Team Jose 4 Life 58 78.38%
Send the miserable @#%&! to Paris 16 21.62%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 15-03-2018, 09:15 AM
andyroo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Hell of a statement that. Properly stuck his neck out.
Obviously wasn't Craig Bellamy doing a bit of guest punditry then
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 09:18 AM
Clarkie
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
Hell of a statement that. Properly stuck his neck out.

Was surprised tbf.
We know it but, a lot of the media narrative around Moyes still is a bit, "oh wasn't given enough time"
Didn't think someone would come out and say it in the media
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 09:33 AM
denis lawless
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkie
Saw some pundit the other night, can't remember who it was but, he said that none of the managers appointed since 2013 have been right for Manchester United
I suppose we should be grateful we didn't get relegated soon after, like when Busby left.

 
Unread 15-03-2018, 09:38 AM
Clarkie
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by denis lawless
I suppose we should be grateful we didn't get relegated soon after, like when Busby left.

Probably why they still say Moyes didn't get enough time
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 07:20 PM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarkie
Saw some pundit the other night, can't remember who it was but, he said that none of the managers appointed since 2013 have been right for Manchester United
It's the kind of thing that pundits say after the event, but the reality is that when two world class managers struggle to impose themselves on a team then it's probably a wider problem. United's issue hasn't so much been the quality of the managers, more their lack of understanding of why they're hiring them.

If they understood why they'd hired LvG, they wouldn't have issued Rooney a 5-yr contract three months beforehand. Nor would they have broken the club record on Mata around that time. LvG arrived in early May and we were desperately trying to sign several players in the last weeks of August. It was a mess, because the club didn't have a clue what they were doing beyond appointing a big name.

Then Mourinho arrives and by his own admission he has to delete the memories of the previous two years. He's as opposite to LvG as you could get. He doesn't want to inherit a side that has been playing with Daley Blind at CB on the halfway line, or having to indulge the likes of Martial and Shaw after the club had invested so much in their potential.

Van Gaal will feel he could have succeeded with better attacking variety; Mourinho will feel that with a more solid and resilient defence his brand of football would be making United much harder to beat and results would be almost undeniable.

Things will get easier for future manages because while it feels like we are in turmoil, the squad is inevitably getting better and younger, having been pretty much decimated in the year or two after Fergie left such was the lack of long-term quality he left behind.

But managers will always be taking on too much responsibility, and fighting against the mass incompetence from above.
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 08:20 PM
Chris Quayd
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
It's the kind of thing that pundits say after the event, but the reality is that when two world class managers struggle to impose themselves on a team then it's probably a wider problem. United's issue hasn't so much been the quality of the managers, more their lack of understanding of why they're hiring them.

If they understood why they'd hired LvG, they wouldn't have issued Rooney a 5-yr contract three months beforehand. Nor would they have broken the club record on Mata around that time. LvG arrived in early May and we were desperately trying to sign several players in the last weeks of August. It was a mess, because the club didn't have a clue what they were doing beyond appointing a big name.

Then Mourinho arrives and by his own admission he has to delete the memories of the previous two years. He's as opposite to LvG as you could get. He doesn't want to inherit a side that has been playing with Daley Blind at CB on the halfway line, or having to indulge the likes of Martial and Shaw after the club had invested so much in their potential.

Van Gaal will feel he could have succeeded with better attacking variety; Mourinho will feel that with a more solid and resilient defence his brand of football would be making United much harder to beat and results would be almost undeniable.

Things will get easier for future manages because while it feels like we are in turmoil, the squad is inevitably getting better and younger, having been pretty much decimated in the year or two after Fergie left such was the lack of long-term quality he left behind.

But managers will always be taking on too much responsibility, and fighting against the mass incompetence from above.
Top post and I agree with a lot of it but both LVG and Mou were given close to a blank cheque, certainly more than all but one rival was given to improve the squad. While tt may have been a weaker squad than they expected there should be no excuses no to impose a style of play and get consistent results even with a clueless board.

Spurs are ran by the ultimate penny-pinchers, they shop for players that no-one else wants out of sheer necessity yet they are getting every last sinew out of their squad and are certainly overperforming relative to the talent they have.

It's not all on the managers but both of them have failed to bring what was reasonably expected.
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 08:52 PM
windy waffles
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
It's the kind of thing that pundits say after the event, but the reality is that when two world class managers struggle to impose themselves on a team then it's probably a wider problem. United's issue hasn't so much been the quality of the managers, more their lack of understanding of why they're hiring them.

If they understood why they'd hired LvG, they wouldn't have issued Rooney a 5-yr contract three months beforehand. Nor would they have broken the club record on Mata around that time. LvG arrived in early May and we were desperately trying to sign several players in the last weeks of August. It was a mess, because the club didn't have a clue what they were doing beyond appointing a big name.

Then Mourinho arrives and by his own admission he has to delete the memories of the previous two years. He's as opposite to LvG as you could get. He doesn't want to inherit a side that has been playing with Daley Blind at CB on the halfway line, or having to indulge the likes of Martial and Shaw after the club had invested so much in their potential.

Van Gaal will feel he could have succeeded with better attacking variety; Mourinho will feel that with a more solid and resilient defence his brand of football would be making United much harder to beat and results would be almost undeniable.

Things will get easier for future manages because while it feels like we are in turmoil, the squad is inevitably getting better and younger, having been pretty much decimated in the year or two after Fergie left such was the lack of long-term quality he left behind.

But managers will always be taking on too much responsibility, and fighting against the mass incompetence from above.
£#%&!ing hell, good post.
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 08:55 PM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
Mourinho will feel that with a more solid and resilient defence his brand of football would be making United much harder to beat and results would be almost undeniable.
then mourinho can £#%&! off. the problem is not that we have a shit defence; it is that he is exposing the defence by playing half a midfield, wings in a back four (sometimes six) and having usually four disorganised forwards who don't track back (or, if mata, you wish they didn't).

we don't need united to be harder to beat, we want united to try to win and, when they fail, to fail gloriously. winning despicably is no good to anyone other than the glazers and losing despicably is no good to anyone.

I know you are trying to say it wasn't king louis's fault, but it definitely £#%&!ing is mourinho's fault (and, soz, it was king louis's too).

mourinho's brand of football is a £#%&!ing problem, irrespective of results.
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 10:30 PM
Billy Redface
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
It's the kind of thing that pundits say after the event, but the reality is that when two world class managers struggle to impose themselves on a team then it's probably a wider problem. United's issue hasn't so much been the quality of the managers, more their lack of understanding of why they're hiring them.

If they understood why they'd hired LvG, they wouldn't have issued Rooney a 5-yr contract three months beforehand. Nor would they have broken the club record on Mata around that time. LvG arrived in early May and we were desperately trying to sign several players in the last weeks of August. It was a mess, because the club didn't have a clue what they were doing beyond appointing a big name.

Then Mourinho arrives and by his own admission he has to delete the memories of the previous two years. He's as opposite to LvG as you could get. He doesn't want to inherit a side that has been playing with Daley Blind at CB on the halfway line, or having to indulge the likes of Martial and Shaw after the club had invested so much in their potential.

Van Gaal will feel he could have succeeded with better attacking variety; Mourinho will feel that with a more solid and resilient defence his brand of football would be making United much harder to beat and results would be almost undeniable.

Things will get easier for future manages because while it feels like we are in turmoil, the squad is inevitably getting better and younger, having been pretty much decimated in the year or two after Fergie left such was the lack of long-term quality he left behind.

But managers will always be taking on too much responsibility, and fighting against the mass incompetence from above.
Well said Siders.

It's ultimately the club's fault.

They have had no plan and it shows. Every season seems like a rebuild.
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 10:33 PM
ScholesGingerSheen
 
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Yeah sorry Siders the problem is we struggle like £#%&! to win, we're pretty hard to beat already, and if he wants a tougher defence then playing specialist fullbacks that don't necessitate the centre halves and Matic covering their arse every time they fail to get back after losing the ball would be a hell of a start.

Ultimately the simple fact is that other supposedly lesser managers do a better job with players who are demonstrably a level below what we have. I could even stand pragmatic football, if it was halfway competent and coherent, but the odd £#%&! up by a centre half is no excuse for Pogba, Matic, The Scottish Player and Fellaini having the off the ball movement of Stephen Hawking and passing like Ray Charles.

We're not shielding the defence by constantly letting runners go after losing the ball at the halfway line. Matic and whoever is at centre half are running themselves ragged covering for two absentee full backs and a midfield that can't retain the ball.
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 10:35 PM
jem
 
Default

siders is definitely not assured of my soty vote this year. :0)
 
Unread 15-03-2018, 11:18 PM
S/Side.Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Quayd
Top post and I agree with a lot of it but both LVG and Mou were given close to a blank cheque, certainly more than all but one rival was given to improve the squad. While tt may have been a weaker squad than they expected there should be no excuses no to impose a style of play and get consistent results even with a clueless board.

Spurs are ran by the ultimate penny-pinchers, they shop for players that no-one else wants out of sheer necessity yet they are getting every last sinew out of their squad and are certainly overperforming relative to the talent they have.

It's not all on the managers but both of them have failed to bring what was reasonably expected.
That's true but both were also charged with (or to put it more accurately wanted to) completely change the playing philosophy and training at the club. When a manager has to do that as well as pretty much buy a new team, you are leaving very little margin for error.

You also wonder to what extent the club are culpable in the recruitment failings. LvG in 2014 resorting to panic buys with guys he played against at the World Cup; even Daley Blind surely could have been signed in June if he was an absolute priority.

There was a lack of creativity about the signings the following year, and Mourinho has three times gone back for his old players, even though one of them he sold and another let him down at Chelsea. Sanchez and Pogba are glamour signings. I'm not convinced Mkhi wasn't signed to appease Raiola. Makes you wonder about the club's scouting network and connections across the game.

The club are giving the managers huge budgets, and that's not insignificant. But you do sense the general ineptitude is undermining that. And as much as it seems harsh to keep coming back to it, I wonder how much of a difference it would have made (even to Moysie) had he inherited 5/6 top class prime players who would make Fergie's departure less heavy. Again arguably an issue for the club to consider, but you get the sense that a 70 year old bloke retiring caught them by surprise. Says it all, really.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 05:53 AM
Stickman
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
That's true but both were also charged with (or to put it more accurately wanted to) completely change the playing philosophy and training at the club. When a manager has to do that as well as pretty much buy a new team, you are leaving very little margin for error.

You also wonder to what extent the club are culpable in the recruitment failings. LvG in 2014 resorting to panic buys with guys he played against at the World Cup; even Daley Blind surely could have been signed in June if he was an absolute priority.

There was a lack of creativity about the signings the following year, and Mourinho has three times gone back for his old players, even though one of them he sold and another let him down at Chelsea. Sanchez and Pogba are glamour signings. I'm not convinced Mkhi wasn't signed to appease Raiola. Makes you wonder about the club's scouting network and connections across the game.

The club are giving the managers huge budgets, and that's not insignificant. But you do sense the general ineptitude is undermining that. And as much as it seems harsh to keep coming back to it, I wonder how much of a difference it would have made (even to Moysie) had he inherited 5/6 top class prime players who would make Fergie's departure less heavy. Again arguably an issue for the club to consider, but you get the sense that a 70 year old bloke retiring caught them by surprise. Says it all, really.
on fire siders.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 06:25 AM
AK14
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
That's true but both were also charged with (or to put it more accurately wanted to) completely change the playing philosophy and training at the club. When a manager has to do that as well as pretty much buy a new team, you are leaving very little margin for error.

You also wonder to what extent the club are culpable in the recruitment failings. LvG in 2014 resorting to panic buys with guys he played against at the World Cup; even Daley Blind surely could have been signed in June if he was an absolute priority.

There was a lack of creativity about the signings the following year, and Mourinho has three times gone back for his old players, even though one of them he sold and another let him down at Chelsea. Sanchez and Pogba are glamour signings. I'm not convinced Mkhi wasn't signed to appease Raiola. Makes you wonder about the club's scouting network and connections across the game.

The club are giving the managers huge budgets, and that's not insignificant. But you do sense the general ineptitude is undermining that. And as much as it seems harsh to keep coming back to it, I wonder how much of a difference it would have made (even to Moysie) had he inherited 5/6 top class prime players who would make Fergie's departure less heavy. Again arguably an issue for the club to consider, but you get the sense that a 70 year old bloke retiring caught them by surprise. Says it all, really.
Postage.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 06:50 AM
waynes ear's
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
That's true but both were also charged with (or to put it more accurately wanted to) completely change the playing philosophy and training at the club. When a manager has to do that as well as pretty much buy a new team, you are leaving very little margin for error.

You also wonder to what extent the club are culpable in the recruitment failings. LvG in 2014 resorting to panic buys with guys he played against at the World Cup; even Daley Blind surely could have been signed in June if he was an absolute priority.

There was a lack of creativity about the signings the following year, and Mourinho has three times gone back for his old players, even though one of them he sold and another let him down at Chelsea. Sanchez and Pogba are glamour signings. I'm not convinced Mkhi wasn't signed to appease Raiola. Makes you wonder about the club's scouting network and connections across the game.

The club are giving the managers huge budgets, and that's not insignificant. But you do sense the general ineptitude is undermining that. And as much as it seems harsh to keep coming back to it, I wonder how much of a difference it would have made (even to Moysie) had he inherited 5/6 top class prime players who would make Fergie's departure less heavy. Again arguably an issue for the club to consider, but you get the sense that a 70 year old bloke retiring caught them by surprise. Says it all, really.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 07:35 AM
windy waffles
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
That's true but both were also charged with (or to put it more accurately wanted to) completely change the playing philosophy and training at the club. When a manager has to do that as well as pretty much buy a new team, you are leaving very little margin for error.

You also wonder to what extent the club are culpable in the recruitment failings. LvG in 2014 resorting to panic buys with guys he played against at the World Cup; even Daley Blind surely could have been signed in June if he was an absolute priority.

There was a lack of creativity about the signings the following year, and Mourinho has three times gone back for his old players, even though one of them he sold and another let him down at Chelsea. Sanchez and Pogba are glamour signings. I'm not convinced Mkhi wasn't signed to appease Raiola. Makes you wonder about the club's scouting network and connections across the game.

The club are giving the managers huge budgets, and that's not insignificant. But you do sense the general ineptitude is undermining that. And as much as it seems harsh to keep coming back to it, I wonder how much of a difference it would have made (even to Moysie) had he inherited 5/6 top class prime players who would make Fergie's departure less heavy. Again arguably an issue for the club to consider, but you get the sense that a 70 year old bloke retiring caught them by surprise. Says it all, really.
Three Chelsea players? Lukaku, Matic...who's the third?
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 07:39 AM
75Red
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by windy waffles
Three Chelsea players? Lukaku, Matic...who's the third?
Zlatan ?
Siders didn’t say three from Chelsea.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 07:54 AM
denis lawless
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/Side.Red
. Again arguably an issue for the club to consider, but you get the sense that a 70 year old bloke retiring caught them by surprise. Says it all, really.
This for me is the absolute root cause of the problems we face today.....and it worried me back when fergie was still in charge and his retirement approached.

There was no need for a complete rebuild, it should have been a continuity, tweeking not totally abandoning a successful formula......we were at the top, some years, by a country mile......we should have groomed a successor. Had them working under Ferguson for a couple of seasons before his retirement, refreshing the squad, not running it down.

But no, not only did we come to an abrupt end, we also allowed Gill to leave and then the first thing a panic, hopeless f***wit of an appointment (moyes) did was release most if not all of the backroom staff

No wonder the club has drifted along with no real plan, vision,direction....just compounding the problem....with each subsequent managerial and playing staff appointment

Lunacy of epic proportions.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 09:21 AM
jem
 
Default

caught by surprise? if fergie had tetired on schedule, moyes might have have been the man after the man after sven.

def should have had a transition period.
 
Unread 16-03-2018, 12:40 PM
windy waffles
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75Red
Zlatan ?
Siders didn’t say three from Chelsea.
Ah yes.
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