Paul 'the drifter' Pogba

Herrera was worse than him but escapes criticism. Acting the plastic hardman seems to make a darling I guess

Originally Posted by Buck

Herrera was worse than him but escapes criticism. Acting the plastic hardman seems to make a darling I guess

We definitely need a better player than Herrera in that midfield for it to function. Excellent option/back up, not good enough first choice I'm afraid. That could be said about half the bloody first team though tbf.

Originally Posted by Buck

Herrera was worse than him but escapes criticism. Acting the plastic hardman seems to make a darling I guess

Yep

Originally Posted by dunk

We definitely need a better player than Herrera in that midfield for it to function. Excellent option/back up, not good enough first choice I'm afraid. That could be said about half the bloody first team though tbf.

Said the same last season

I like Ander and he'll do for now, but if we want to challenge for major honours he'll need upgrading.

Like the lad, Ander but for the position he plays he just isn't imposing enough. Just don't see him lifting his game any further.

Originally Posted by Buck

Herrera was worse than him but escapes criticism. Acting the plastic hardman seems to make a darling I guess

Also people are harder on Pogba because of how talented he is. Herrera does his best, works hard, but at the top level he is clearly a level, at least, below the very best. I would not be against dropping him to get another forward in, Pogba alongside Matic, then Lukaku and 3 out of Miki, Mata, Martial and Rashford.

Back to Gerrard for a moment, at the peak if his career he was playing RW or off a striker for Benitez. fat boy had tried to make it work in midfield but Gerrard was so bullheaded he had to change. That is what I worry about with Pogba, constantly having to make compromises in selection, shape, to find a role that gets the best out of him.

Originally Posted by Bunker Buster

That's a very good point.....

Has he been carried or needs to be by those around him to express himself...

It seems that as soon as he's against better players or he needs to be the main man (united) he wilts....

A decision goes against him or he's frustrated by another 35 yard wayward shot and you won't see him again that half...

The game from last season that concerned me was Bournemouth at Old Trafford. United were shocking second half against ten men and Pogba completely went to pieces after getting a bit of stick from the crowd. Ended up spending the last twenty minutes scuffing everything and falling over.

Silv says he'll learn the simple things but sometimes that's the hardest thing to learn, because so much of great football is about choosing well and timing, which can be largely instinct. As Cruyff said: "Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is." While we're at it, he also said: "Football is a game you play with your brain. You have to be in the right place at the right moment, not too early, not too late."

To what extent can you teach timing, or the ability to chose well? If Pogba cannot learn this, he won't be a great central midfield player. Juventus preferred to deploy him off the left, which makes Tibs' Gerrard comparison more pertinent as a player with similarly brilliant levels of talent was arguably more effective adding to the game in the final third rather than dictating a match from midfield.

As Tibs says, we are harder on Pogba because we expect the world from him. I expect him to be one of our better players this season and light up plenty of games. But anything other than becoming one of the best players of his generation will be betrayal of his talent. He will be 25 before the business end of the season - it's time to make it happen.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

The game from last season that concerned me was Bournemouth at Old Trafford. United were shocking second half against ten men and Pogba completely went to pieces after getting a bit of stick from the crowd. Ended up spending the last twenty minutes scuffing everything and falling over.

Silv says he'll learn the simple things but sometimes that's the hardest thing to learn, because so much of great football is about choosing well and timing, which can be largely instinct. As Cruyff said: "Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is." While we're at it, he also said: "Football is a game you play with your brain. You have to be in the right place at the right moment, not too early, not too late."

To what extent can you teach timing, or the ability to chose well? If Pogba cannot learn this, he won't be a great central midfield player. Juventus preferred to deploy him off the left, which makes Tibs' Gerrard comparison more pertinent as a player with similarly brilliant levels of talent was arguably more effective adding to the game in the final third rather than dictating a match from midfield.

As Tibs says, we are harder on Pogba because we expect the world from him. I expect him to be one of our better players this season and light up plenty of games. But anything other than becoming one of the best players of his generation will be betrayal of his talent. He will be 25 before the business end of the season - it's time to make it happen.

tibs is of course right, but the point is that pogba doesn't have to be the one dictating the game - he's not supposed to be the one dictating it ...

before we signed him my main criticism of him was that i'd never seen him run a [big] game from centre mid. but if we're insisting on this one up front malarkey then pogba does't need to be the one running it - and mourinho clearly thinks the same since he's spent £40m to bring in matic to do exactly that ...

united doesn't use a 10. i can't think of a time we've played with a genuine 10 and looked fluid, or even been able to keep the momentum in our attacks. rooney wasn't always shit in there just because he wasn't up to it as an individual.

the complication we have though is that pogba wants to play inside left and/or out to in from there. but off the other side we have mata or mhiki doing the same. this prevents the striker dropping unless they're making straight runs beyond him. but they can't because they can't catch up when we're bypassing midfield - which we often have to because our assortment of 10s want to move into that space rather than occupy it and operate from there.

in other words the striker is isolated, the space behind him is vacated one moment and flooded the next. and to compound the issue he has no-one outside him anything like up with play. we have the players - we have some great players and players with great potential as well. but the balance isn't right. i wonder if an upgrade on herrera would be a player who can drop in and out of the back line and give mourinho the confidence to allow the full-backs to get a bit higher - or at least help the players on the pitch to make that call so that the manager isn't having to micro-manage the likes of shaw.

Well it mightn't be Pogba's job to dictate a game but some £#%&!er has to dictate it. Preferably someone on our team for a change.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Well it mightn't be Pogba's job to dictate a game but some £#%&!er has to dictate it. Preferably someone on our team for a change.

we have controlled the game - or tried to control the game - from deeper for about a decade now.

scholes, then carrick and now that passes to matic ...

it should give a platform for the so-called 10s plus pogba to play so let's see what they can do.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

tibs is of course right, but the point is that pogba doesn't have to be the one dictating the game - he's not supposed to be the one dictating it ...

before we signed him my main criticism of him was that i'd never seen him run a [big] game from centre mid. but if we're insisting on this one up front malarkey then pogba does't need to be the one running it - and mourinho clearly thinks the same since he's spent £40m to bring in matic to do exactly that ...

united doesn't use a 10. i can't think of a time we've played with a genuine 10 and looked fluid, or even been able to keep the momentum in our attacks. rooney wasn't always shit in there just because he wasn't up to it as an individual.

the complication we have though is that pogba wants to play inside left and/or out to in from there. but off the other side we have mata or mhiki doing the same. this prevents the striker dropping unless they're making straight runs beyond him. but they can't because they can't catch up when we're bypassing midfield - which we often have to because our assortment of 10s want to move into that space rather than occupy it and operate from there.

in other words the striker is isolated, the space behind him is vacated one moment and flooded the next. and to compound the issue he has no-one outside him anything like up with play. we have the players - we have some great players and players with great potential as well. but the balance isn't right. i wonder if an upgrade on herrera would be a player who can drop in and out of the back line and give mourinho the confidence to allow the full-backs to get a bit higher - or at least help the players on the pitch to make that call so that the manager isn't having to micro-manage the likes of shaw.

It's looked to me that Mourinho wants Pogba to be more of a central midfielder than he was at Juve. Whether it's running the game or not, that will require a bit more than he's shown in terms of understanding such roles. I also reckon if Matic is running games for us we are £#%&!ed. There is a difference between being able to pick a pass and having the brain to fully make the play. Tbh I think his job will be to help spring the transition as quickly as possible, rather than control possession.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's looked to me that Mourinho wants Pogba to be more of a central midfielder than he was at Juve. Whether it's running the game or not, that will require a bit more than he's shown in terms of understanding such roles. I also reckon if Matic is running games for us we are £#%&!ed. There is a difference between being able to pick a pass and having the brain to fully make the play. Tbh I think his job will be to help spring the transition as quickly as possible, rather than control possession.

i don't expect matic to be the playmaker, I expect him to do what he's good at - water carrier and continuity, with occasional great ball or surge up field ...

there's still a danger he'll be swamped quite often depending on whether mourinho sacrifices herrera, but ...

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

i don't expect matic to be the playmaker, I expect him to do what he's good at - water carrier and continuity, with occasional great ball or surge up field ...

Pretty much. Not sure to what extent he complements Herrera's game. Tbh I think there could be plenty of times Mou just goes with Pogba and Matic to overpower teams.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Pretty much. Not sure to what extent he complements Herrera's game. Tbh I think there could be plenty of times Mou just goes with Pogba and Matic to overpower teams.

hope so, but that's what's gonna expose matic on turnover because we're far too sloppy going into the last 3rd (pogba especially obvs)