Hillsborough Disaster.

Originally Posted by believe

Why is it Hillsborough tomorrow?

Those much-discussed documents in the public files are to be released tomorrow. Article on it here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...-day-reckoning

I hope tomorrow the familys get what they want/need to move on from this

Maybe then it can be put to bed and they can carry on with there grieving in private

It's clear the police messed up to a criminal extent and have not been held to account properly.

Originally Posted by KenwrightsWallet

I hope tomorrow the familys get what they want/need to move on from this

Maybe then it can be put to bed and they can carry on with there grieving in private

i really don't want to sound disrespectful here
but is this gonna happen really?

Originally Posted by Father Christmas

It's clear the police messed up to a criminal extent and have not been held to account properly.

Everybody knows that.

Whatever you think about Liverpool, the old bill basically doing what they do (i.e treating football supporters like animals) killed 96 people.

The sooner the families find out and find some peace the better for all concerned.

That programme last night (the bit i saw) was obviously horrific - and for the families involved you can only sympathise and hope they find some peace...


BUT: All the other @#%&!s - the @#%&!s who quite happily sang about Munich - had Munich banners etc etc and now pretend they didn't - @#%&!s who now demand everyone else bow down and sympathise with 'their' cause - can £#%&! right off imo.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Those much-discussed documents in the public files are to be released tomorrow. Article on it here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...-day-reckoning

How many of the dead could have been saved? One mother, Anne Williams, whose son Kevin, 15, died, has evidence that her son displayed signs of life at 4pm. An off-duty officer told her he felt a pulse. A special constable said Kevin opened his eyes and whispered: "Mum". Their statements were changed following a visit from West Midlands police, whose serious crime unit was disbanded in 1989 amid allegations of corrupt conduct by officers. Both witnesses stand by their original statements.

Originally Posted by thenorthwillriseagain

i really don't want to sound disrespectful here
but is this gonna happen really?

I dont know mate, Hopefully

The familys have fought 23 years to get some closure so lets hope they get just that tomorrow

I hope this is put to bed for the families sake but what if its not what they want to hear? They want justice but in what context?

Some of the stuff i've read on dads/mums losing children and having to choose who to stay with whilst the other died is heartbreaking and I couldn't give a £#%&! if they were Liverpool supporters or not, you shouldn't go to a game of football and die.

I hate Liverpool with a passion and wish endless misery on them but Hillsbrough is not a stick to hit them with regardless of any Munich chanting shit theyve come out with.....we are better than that

the situation wasn't caused by the gates being opened, they were opened because of the situation.

the layout of the turnstiles, forecourt and stand was also to blame. as were the police. as were some of the fans.

the crush at the turnstiles had to be released, but it should never have been so big in the first place. as we all know, crushes were not uncommon at football in those days, and if you could use that to get in for nowt then you would.

People bang on all the time about wanting "the truth", but I can't shake the feeling that what they really want is their truth. A 'truth' that absolves the Liverpool supporters of all blame and lays the culpability squarely at the hands of the authorities. Anything less than this and the wagon goes rolling on.

There are real questions to be asked for sure, but let's be honest the Hillsborough campaigners have bullied and intimidated many people over the years who had the audacity to ask questions that didn't jibe with their version of events, so the real question remains, what truth are they looking for?

Originally Posted by Jethro

I hope this is put to bed for the families sake but what if its not what they want to hear? They want justice but in what context?

An extreme example, but I imagine if the report was to come out and lay the blame on the fans completely, they'd just ignore it, try to discredit it and boycott the government.

One of the main issues I have with all this (though not that important in context) is that the hordes of Liverpool fans who wont shut up about it seemingly want to be shown to be blameless, as if it will rub off on everything else they've done. There was a comment on the Guardian earlier from a Liverpool fan (quite rightly) saying "Read the Taylor report". Yet many of these same fans found the exhaustive report on the Suarez incident inconclusive

Definitely one rule for them and another for everyone else but it grinds my gears that they co-opt it when essentially, it's nothing to do with a lot of them.

God help us all if it isnt what they want to hear but the blame either lies solely with the authorities, or mostly with the authorities and partly with the fans, so whichever it comes out the families at least should be happy.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

the situation wasn't caused by the gates being opened, they were opened because of the situation.

the layout of the turnstiles, forecourt and stand was also to blame. as were the police. as were some of the fans.

the crush at the turnstiles had to be released, but it should never have been so big in the first place. as we all know, crushes were not uncommon at football in those days, and if you could use that to get in for nowt then you would.

My biggest memeories of the 80's and early 90's were leaving the ground and not having to use my feet, I was basically picked up in a crush and just carried along.

Originally Posted by KenwrightsWallet

I dont know mate, Hopefully

The familys have fought 23 years to get some closure so lets hope they get just that tomorrow

not having a pop mate because it must of been hell on earth for those that died, but what happens if the conclusion is not what they want to hear ?

do you reckon they'll still let it go ?

Originally Posted by Switching Off

An extreme example, but I imagine if the report was to come out and lay the blame on the fans completely, they'd just ignore it, try to discredit it and boycott the government.

It's not going to happen though. Hillsborough didn't have a safety certificate, and there'd been at least two previous crushes that hospitalised people. Those facts alone mean the blame can never be placed entirely on the fans. Then there's all the other shit the police did on the day, £#%&!ing up in pretty much every possible way.

Regardless, what's clear is that there was giant cover-up afterwards. No-one's ever lost a day's pay over it, and if I was one of the parents I'd be angry about that too. No safety certificate, no checks, no organisation, police telling pleading fans to £#%&! off, shoving them back into the pens by hitting them with batons, refusing to let ambulances through, not placing the dying in recovery positions - and then whitewashing the whole thing to avoid blame. And people wonder why they're pissed off.

.

Originally Posted by Zorg

It's not going to happen though. Hillsborough didn't have a safety certificate, and there'd been at least two previous crushes that hospitalised people. Those facts alone mean the blame can never be placed entirely on the fans. Then there's all the other shit the police did on the day, £#%&!ing up in pretty much every possible way.

Regardless, what's clear is that there was giant cover-up afterwards. No-one's ever lost a day's pay over it, and if I was one of the parents I'd be angry about that too. No safety certificate, no checks, no organisation, police telling pleading fans to £#%&! off, shoving them back into the pens by hitting them with batons, refusing to let ambulances through, not placing the dying in recovery positions - and then whitewashing the whole thing to avoid blame. And people wonder why they're pissed off.

Yup, and its only fair that people want to know.

What I would say though, that for individual policemen on that day, it can't have been easy. Yes, at the top it was badly organised, but for those actually policing the match, only 3 years after Heysel, it's no surprise if some of them £#%&!ed up big time.

I don't know how the fans can be blamed in anyway for Hillsbrough........bad traffic caused congestion at kick off time and once those doors were open it was a free for all (which it would have been at any ground in the country with any fans in the country).

I hate sympathising with those horrible @#%&!s but I hope the families get the answers they want