"Best League in the world" - Coppell

Originally Posted by jem

that ouch was the sound of you bumping your own head, I'd imagine.

you are insane.

you're thinking you may have been a tad hasty with your earlier reply, arn't you?

but if you think veron and carrick were/are flops, there's not much I can do for you.

funny how you didn't mention how fergie £#%&!ed up veron, scholes and ruud due his stubborn stupidity in that other thread. go on, tell us about that game away at boro two years ago as well whilst you're at it.

p.s. fergie didn't want to sell veron.

Originally Posted by jem

but if you think veron and carrick were/are flops, there's not much I can do for you.

funny how you didn't mention how fergie £#%&!ed up veron, scholes and ruud due his stubborn stupidity in that other thread. go on, tell us about that game away at boro two years ago as well whilst you're at it.

p.s. fergie didn't want to sell veron.

did you mention veron and boro in the same thread ??

hmmmm, where do i start.

veron was shit, he threatened many times not to be but essentially he was, he was also a £#%&!ing waste of time at chelsea. while i'm at it i can't really remember too many 'awesome' games for the Argies either.

he was a failure,a complete failure. you may try and defend him by making excuses for him, fergie didn't play him in the right position, we didn't give him time, we should have built our team around him. at the end of the day he was a big £#%&!ing money signing that totally failed.

he scored that goal against bolton though, oh and that screamer at giggs testimonial



carrick will be a true great at old trafford in one of old traffords most exciting sides.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

That's a load of %@#$&!s. The national side were shit in the 80's, not many foreigners around then? Failed to qualify for two world cups in the 70s. In fact, apart from 1966 and (arguably) 1990, England have been shit at International football, period. Got £#%&! all to do with the amount of players from abroad in the Premier League.

The national side would be a lot better if English players put in the graft their foreign counterparts do, instead of acting as if they've made it when they sign their first professional contract. Jenus, Dyer, Dunn, Bently, Richardson... the list is endless.

for me 86 and 90 were the best england teams in my lifetime i was not here for 66 and what has been better since


seriously how could you not respect the England 86 team? we lost to the greatest player of our generation / possibly the greatest player ever. Even he had to cheat ffs, I must point out i am no England fan even though i was a spectator for the 5-1 in munich i saw Lazy legs Mcmanamon play 3 days later and that was the end of my Engurland watching career, but still...

Why don't Irish, Northern Irish, Scottish, and Welsh players ever come up as "foreign players" the subject of foreign players come up? United started 4 foreigners in the 1968 European Cup final (and would have been 5 if Law was fit). They started 7 foreigners in 1999, and last season's first XI had 6 foreigners. Fairly consistent I would say. Playing with foreigners benefits the English players, just look at what playing with Cantona did for the class of '92. England doesn't struggle for good players, it struggles for good managment.

Originally Posted by J_RED

seriously how could you not respect the England 86 team? we lost to the greatest player of our generation / possibly the greatest player ever.

er... "we lost the greatest player of our generation", surely?

england would have won the world cup but for a dislocated shoulder.

and we'd have beaten the argies if we'd started with the team that finished that game too.


oh I say, carrick was the hub of the united wheel last season. how soon they forget. strangely enough, fergie started playing the sort of team that was crying out for veron shortly after he left. nice one. wizard, my arse.

Originally Posted by jem

er... "we lost the greatest player of our generation", surely?

england would have won the world cup but for a dislocated shoulder.

and we'd have beaten the argies if we'd started with the team that finished that game too.


oh I say, carrick was the hub of the united wheel last season. how soon they forget. strangely enough, fergie started playing the sort of team that was crying out for veron shortly after he left. nice one. wizard, my arse.

how does any of that argue against 86 being a great world cup

If you are suggesting Robson was better than Diego ,then sorry even I am not that RED

Hughes you are always in a losing side.

In the last 5 years, why since united came about we have had the biggest flop who is english. kieran £#%&!ing richardson............

I don't buy it for a second.

Working with foreign players is probably more likely to help a youngster than hinder him.

As for average players, if the English players were better then they'd be picked.

Ashley Cole had no problem getting into the Arsenal and Chelsea foreign legion.
John Terry and Frank Lampard are arguably Chelsea's most important players.

This cap thing is bullshit. All that really does is force teams to play young English players who simply aren't good enough.

English players should be playing on merit, not because of legislation.

Doesn't anyone remember how shit the three foreigner rule in Europe was. Sure, Gary Walsh got games, but not because he was good enough and how did that help his development?

Besides, what did the likes of Cantona do to influence the likes of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc? He was an important part of their development.

I'm sure Theo Walcott will have learned a lot from Thierry Henry, for eaxmple.

Foreign players have boosted the quality and profile of English football, clubs are more successful and success breeds success in players.
More English players are Champions and European Cup winners - they have big game experience and a winning mentality.

It just simply reeks of an excuse.
If the English players coming through are good enough then they will break through.
If there's average foreign players coming into the game and the kids can't get in ahead of them then they must be pretty average themselves.

England have the players capable of winning a world cup, they just don't have the bottle or anyone to organise them properly. And that's not supposed to be a cheap insult.

Originally Posted by J_RED

for me 86 and 90 were the best england teams in my lifetime

That may very well be the case, but in the grand scheme of things, they were shit. In the same period, Germany made three successive World Cup finals (winning one) and won a European Championship. Getting beat in a quarter final then moaning for twenty isn't what a decent team does I'm afraid.

The point is, Coppell seems to be blaming the poor form of the National side on foreign players. But historically (right back to the 1950 defeat to a part time USA side!), England have always been crap at international football.

There's good points to both sides of this - to be honest i couldnt really give a shit what rule they bring in, but i do know that there are english players just as good as players like El-Hadji Diouf - i just think the benchmark for players needs to be raised.

They have some rule that none Europeans must be internationals in order to get a work permit - thats the sort of thing they should bring in, some sort of grading system for players so that only the exceptional ones are allowed in. Diouf is a very average player, taking the place of an english lad that could do just as well.

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

There's good points to both sides of this - to be honest i couldnt really give a shit what rule they bring in, but i do know that there are english players just as good as players like El-Hadji Diouf - i just think the benchmark for players needs to be raised.

They have some rule that none Europeans must be internationals in order to get a work permit - thats the sort of thing they should bring in, some sort of grading system for players so that only the exceptional ones are allowed in. Diouf is a very average player, taking the place of an english lad that could do just as well.

'Just as well' would be average then wouldn't it?

Is that what we want?

No, we want quality youngsters coming through. If there was a young player as good or better then he'd be battling out with Diouf.


(Incidentally, I think Diouf is a pretty good player, actually.)

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

I don't buy it for a second.

Working with foreign players is probably more likely to help a youngster than hinder him.

As for average players, if the English players were better then they'd be picked.

Ashley Cole had no problem getting into the Arsenal and Chelsea foreign legion.
John Terry and Frank Lampard are arguably Chelsea's most important players.

This cap thing is bullshit. All that really does is force teams to play young English players who simply aren't good enough.

English players should be playing on merit, not because of legislation.

Doesn't anyone remember how shit the three foreigner rule in Europe was. Sure, Gary Walsh got games, but not because he was good enough and how did that help his development?

Besides, what did the likes of Cantona do to influence the likes of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs etc? He was an important part of their development.

I'm sure Theo Walcott will have learned a lot from Thierry Henry, for eaxmple.

Foreign players have boosted the quality and profile of English football, clubs are more successful and success breeds success in players.
More English players are Champions and European Cup winners - they have big game experience and a winning mentality.

It just simply reeks of an excuse.
If the English players coming through are good enough then they will break through.
If there's average foreign players coming into the game and the kids can't get in ahead of them then they must be pretty average themselves.

All the foreign players who come to England are working with foreign players - English players - every day. And then on match-days they are taking their places in the starting XI and even on the bench.

To me it is blindingly obvious that their are foreign players in most squads in the Prem who are no better than their English counterparts. If the average players were better they'd get picked, you're right. But if the average players are no more average than their foreign counterparts? Playing football matches at Premiership level improves any footballer worth his salt. No-one can argue with that can they?

Originally Posted by Lou_Macari_Chippy

There's good points to both sides of this - to be honest i couldnt really give a shit what rule they bring in, but i do know that there are english players just as good as players like El-Hadji Diouf - i just think the benchmark for players needs to be raised.

They have some rule that none Europeans must be internationals in order to get a work permit - thats the sort of thing they should bring in, some sort of grading system for players so that only the exceptional ones are allowed in. Diouf is a very average player, taking the place of an english lad that could do just as well.

Not sure about Diouf in particular, but yes there needs to be a limit on the number of these players who can be named in the squad on match-day imo. If that means work permits and tighter qualifying rules then so be it. But I don't think it needs to be that complicated tbh.

Whilst we let the Sun pick the national team and Give lip service to players with "good engines" eg Geoff Thomas, Carlton Palmer, Gareth barry et al we will never win or achieve anything........true story

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

All the foreign players who come to England are working with foreign players - English players - every day. And then on match-days they are taking their places in the starting XI and even on the bench.

To me it is blindingly obvious that their are foreign players in most squads in the Prem who are no better than their English counterparts. If the average players were better they'd get picked, you're right. But if the average players are no more average than their foreign counterparts? Playing football matches at Premiership level improves any footballer worth his salt. No-one can argue with that can they?


Not sure about Diouf in particular, but yes there needs to be a limit on the number of these players who can be named in the squad on match-day imo. If that means work permits and tighter qualifying rules then so be it. But I don't think it needs to be that complicated tbh.

No one seems to have a problem with the top quality foreigners, it seems to be the average ones who people have issues with.

That's fine, but as I say, it's all on the same level.

We're basically arguing the toss over average foreginer v average Englishman.

If they're average then is it really that big a deal? Why should we fight the corner of British players who basically aren't good enough.

If it's that bad then they can move on and prove themselves somewhere else. Sidwell is a good example. Can't get past Johnny Foreigner at Arsenal, smaller club, excels and attracts big club again.

Same with David Bentley. May have got a raw deal originally, but just let his football do the talking anyway.

If they have the talent then it will be noticed, if they don't then they can't complain about not getting chances. That's the bottom line.

Managers and coaches aren't stupid, they can spot the difference in quality.

There's always this idea that kids aren't getting chances because of average foreigners. I'm not so sure these kids exist. We seem to assume that because the given foreigner is only average that there must be some unlucky kid waiting in the wings. Most of the time there probably isn't because they'd be in the side if they existed and were better.

Originally Posted by The Return of JC

No one seems to have a problem with the top quality foreigners, it seems to be the average ones who people have issues with.

That's fine, but as I say, it's all on the same level.

We're basically arguing the toss over average foreginer v average Englishman.

If they're average then is it really that big a deal? Why should we fight the corner of British players who basically aren't good enough.

If it's that bad then they can move on and prove themselves somewhere else. Sidwell is a good example. Can't get past Johnny Foreigner at Arsenal, smaller club, excels and attracts big club again.

Same with David Bentley. May have got a raw deal originally, but just let his football do the talking anyway.

If they have the talent then it will be noticed, if they don't then they can't complain about not getting chances. That's the bottom line.

Managers and coaches aren't stupid, they can spot the difference in quality.

There's always this idea that kids aren't getting chances because of average foreigners. I'm not so sure these kids exist. We seem to assume that because the given foreigner is only average that there must be some unlucky kid waiting in the wings. Most of the time there probably isn't because they'd be in the side if they existed and were better.

I think there is a problem when our average players are not getting the chance to play and improve by experience because their place is taken by a foreigner who is little or no better.

Anyway, what I'm really saying is that there are about 60 million people in England, but instead of that huge pool to draw from being fully utilised clubs just go for the quick fix. If there were some restrictions on them doing that then surely the system would be more successful and sooner or later our national team would start to see more benefit from all the superb foreign players that play here.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

That's a load of %@#$&!s. The national side were shit in the 80's, not many foreigners around then? Failed to qualify for two world cups in the 70s. In fact, apart from 1966 and (arguably) 1990, England have been shit at International football, period. Got £#%&! all to do with the amount of players from abroad in the Premier League.

The national side would be a lot better if English players put in the graft their foreign counterparts do, instead of acting as if they've made it when they sign their first professional contract. Jenus, Dyer, Dunn, Bently, Richardson... the list is endless.

Good call.

Originally Posted by sharath

Hughes you are always in a losing side.

In the last 5 years, why since united came about we have had the biggest flop who is english. kieran £#%&!ing richardson............

me thinks not. Richardson came through the ranks and played for england, wether or not he was ever good enough for united is besides the point. We didn't buy him.

i'll conceed Smith, he was gash. Apart from him i'm pretty much stumped.

rio
hargreaves
carrick
sherringham

all english buys and all decent.

.................................................. ..................................


As for top foriegners influencing young english players, of course it will. ERIC.
but top english players will do the same, the problem is that there wont be many top english players because they wont be coming through.

foriegners are being bought because they are cheaper, it isn't really the case at united but in the lower leagues it is deffo the case.