The Glazer Reign Is Crumbling

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Why would he do that, seeing as billionaires aren't normally total morons?

Because he’s then got 25% of what they’re hoping will be a £10bn valuation after the WC in America.

He’s gone in to buy the club, they seem to have convinced him it’s massively undervalued and to give them some money to get on the gravy train.

Originally Posted by dunk

Because he’s then got 25% of what they’re hoping will be a £10bn valuation after the WC in America.

He’s gone in to buy the club, they seem to have convinced him it’s massively undervalued and to give them some money to get on the gravy train.

they're on drugs if they think united will be worth 10 billion in two years

Originally Posted by Sparky***

they're on drugs if they think united will be worth 10 billion in two years

I’d say you’re absolutely right, but that appears to be the expectation. It wasn’t worth what was bid this time.

This is where the idea of Jim fully taking over is also flawed imo.. if the club is expected to increase in value, why would he agree to wait and eventually pay more for the remaining shares? The Glazers are unlikely to let them go for less than they could’ve got now, unless the price is pre-agreed and timescales with it, but why would Jim agree to wait unnecessarily?

Basically, we’re £#%&!ed and complete collapse looks like the only way out now. They’ll be dragging on and adding to the bulk of that debt forever if we just keep bumbling along.

Originally Posted by dunk

I’d say you’re absolutely right, but that appears to be the expectation. It wasn’t worth what was bid this time.

This is where the idea of Jim fully taking over is also flawed imo.. if the club is expected to increase in value, why would he agree to wait and eventually pay more for the remaining shares? The Glazers are unlikely to let them go for less than they could’ve got now, unless the price is pre-agreed and timescales with it, but why would Jim agree to wait unnecessarily?

Basically, we’re £#%&!ed and complete collapse looks like the only way out now. They’ll be dragging on and adding to the bulk of that debt forever if we just keep bumbling along.

For all the moral quandaries about qatar taking over, it was the only way we were ever going to be rid of the £#%&!ers and debt free for the future.

As you say, we're lumbered with them now until god knows when and their ever spiralling debt

Bleak isn’t it. I can’t see a sway out of it now.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Explain to a financial idiot, does that mean the club/Glazers owe that amount to lenders? Who? Banks? And given the other results you list, how do they ever expect to pay that off without selling the club? Jim’s investment?

I don’t think the 1.2 billion from Ratcliffe is an investment into the club. I think that’s going to all the other glazers who are £#%&!ing off.

With regards to how much he will invest or debt ineos takes on, is yet to be seen.

Originally Posted by shenwen

Explain to a financial idiot, does that mean the club/Glazers owe that amount to lenders? Who? Banks? And given the other results you list, how do they ever expect to pay that off without selling the club? Jim’s investment?

Your liabilities are everything you owe. For the Glazers it will be other clubs for transfers, Bank of America and others for their loans / credit facility and others.

Assets are valued at £1,317m while total liabilities are £1,214m
Subtract the latter from the former and you have your equity, i.e. how much you'd have if you sold everything you own and paid off everything you owe.

Quite how that is worth multiple billions more than the Qatari bid is a complete mystery.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

they're on drugs if they think united will be worth 10 billion in two years

Nope.

Saudi will buy the world cup. Billions will be pumped into the game in the meantime. EPL, as the most marketable league in world football will be the main recipient. Transfer fees will be increased astronomically. There's only profit to be made if you're invested in a relatively stable Premier League team with valuable assets.

Potentially there's silly value as in us as a club.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Nope.

Saudi will buy the world cup. Billions will be pumped into the game in the meantime. EPL, as the most marketable league in world football will be the main recipient. Transfer fees will be increased astronomically. There's only profit to be made if you're invested in a relatively stable Premier League team with valuable assets.

Potentially there's silly value as in us as a club.

Supposing you're right? where does that leave them? Nobody will buy United for 10 billion will they.

It leaves them with a very expensive asset that they already can't manage properly under crippling debt that is performing woefully on the pitch.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

Nope.

Saudi will buy the world cup. Billions will be pumped into the game in the meantime. EPL, as the most marketable league in world football will be the main recipient. Transfer fees will be increased astronomically. There's only profit to be made if you're invested in a relatively stable Premier League team with valuable assets.

Potentially there's silly value as in us as a club.

If anything Saudi will use that to pump more money into their own league. It’s all about image for them. They will do as much as they can to have a “strong domestic” football league.

Premier league will be ok because of history and legacy but you won’t see much more wrt transfer fees etc. even more so Man Utd as a club if we don’t regularly make champions league you can see the likes of city Newcastle scousers Arsenal (and any other team some mad billionaires with unlimited funds decide to fund) taking over.

Our own sponsors over 7-10 years will fall. We are already seeing it with players a little bit , Bellingham turning us down for Dortmund even after Ferguson was trotted out. As horrible as it is to say, right now if it’s a shoot out between a player having to choose us or city most would choose city.

Once you have a generation of kids not built on the lure of a club , the history , its values and what makes it special the only other thing to bring them in is with success.
With the way things look with the glazers staying on, don’t expect too much change

The only way the value of the club would increase to twice/three times as much is if there is some form of European super league which no doubt they will revisit very soon when the leagues in Italy , Spain , Germany actually begin to feel to force of the Saudis building their own. The premier league is strong enough to stand on its its two feet , the others largely not .

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Supposing you're right? where does that leave them? Nobody will buy United for 10 billion will they.

It leaves them with a very expensive asset that they already can't manage properly under crippling debt that is performing woefully on the pitch.

It's never about how much you can realistically sell the club for though is it, it's more how much the club is worth. If they sell 25% of their shares now, the remaining 75% could very realistically be worth significantly more later on.

Evrybody's wondering why Chelsea is spending stupid money on players on 8 year contracts. Well if that players value has increased significantly in 5 years then it's good business.

The value of football as a 'thing' will increase a lot. The Premier League is the most marketable league in the world. That will mean they will get the majority share of money pumped into the sport. Manchester United as a club will be one of the main beneficiaries of that money or value.

I don't like it, I don't want it to happen but that's the reality of it.

I'm having second thoughts about giving someone 15% control and putting them in charge of football.

If I have 15% of United and want 51%+ i want the shares to go down (below my initial offer.) I want United out of europe and way down the league (ideally relegated.)

Not to rain on the parade.

Originally Posted by armchair

I'm having second thoughts about giving someone 15% control and putting them in charge of football.

If I have 15% of United and want 51%+ i want the shares to go down (below my initial offer.) I want United out of europe and way down the league (ideally relegated.)

Not to rain on the parade.

Reports could be misleading but the biggest downer is that glazer is reported to be on this new football operations Board . he is only going to be there if glazer has input on things. Hopefully it’s all %@#$&!s

Originally Posted by armchair

I'm having second thoughts about giving someone 15% control and putting them in charge of football.

If I have 15% of United and want 51%+ i want the shares to go down (below my initial offer.) I want United out of europe and way down the league (ideally relegated.)

Not to rain on the parade.

It's fair point.

It's lose - lose. Always will be. Either we're absolute shite and the Glazers sell up to make what they can, or we're successful and they want to stick around parasitically. For me personally it's lose - lose - lose because Qatari ownership would just kill everything.

This is the only win from my perspective, not a good win. But a win nonetheless. With Radcliffe I believe that he 'gets' the club more than the Glazers ever will. Even if you believe he's a Chelsea fan, he still gets 'football' more than the Glazers ever will. And if everything goes ahead then he's invested to a significant degree. He can't fail. We're not Nice or whoever the £#%&!. We're Manchester United. And £#%&!ing up Manchester United would be devastating to him.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

It's never about how much you can realistically sell the club for though is it, it's more how much the club is worth. If they sell 25% of their shares now, the remaining 75% could very realistically be worth significantly more later on.

Evrybody's wondering why Chelsea is spending stupid money on players on 8 year contracts. Well if that players value has increased significantly in 5 years then it's good business.

The value of football as a 'thing' will increase a lot. The Premier League is the most marketable league in the world. That will mean they will get the majority share of money pumped into the sport. Manchester United as a club will be one of the main beneficiaries of that money or value.

I don't like it, I don't want it to happen but that's the reality of it.

Chelsea's long contacts were an FFP dodge, nothing else.

They're Saudi backed with an American front man and are a bigger joke than us.

Back to us: it seems Jim's money will be used as an investment to pay down some debt and potentially upgrade the stadium and training facilities. The debt caught up with the glazers and this was their only way to solve it.

We can't continue to post losses. No matter how much they increase revenue we keep coming up short. The debt has finally become unmanageable and Jimmy has saved them.

Originally Posted by Patty_b

It's fair point.

It's lose - lose. Always will be. Either we're absolute shite and the Glazers sell up to make what they can, or we're successful and they want to stick around parasitically. For me personally it's lose - lose - lose because Qatari ownership would just kill everything.

This is the only win from my perspective, not a good win. But a win nonetheless. With Radcliffe I believe that he 'gets' the club more than the Glazers ever will. Even if you believe he's a Chelsea fan, he still gets 'football' more than the Glazers ever will. And if everything goes ahead then he's invested to a significant degree. He can't fail. We're not Nice or whoever the £#%&!. We're Manchester United. And £#%&!ing up Manchester United would be devastating to him.

I think I did a poll ages ago "would you take relegation if it meant getting rid of the glazers" and everyone was onboard. Maybe Jim voted on that poll. Maybe not.

Originally Posted by armchair

I think I did a poll ages ago "would you take relegation if it meant getting rid of the glazers" and everyone was onboard. Maybe Jim voted on that poll. Maybe not.

I remember and I voted YES. I think me and Roth have been consistent with that. Honestly think it'd be brilliant tbh. Championship TV rights through the roof!

Originally Posted by Lok

Chelsea's long contacts were an FFP dodge, nothing else.

They're Saudi backed with an American front man and are a bigger joke than us.

Back to us: it seems Jim's money will be used as an investment to pay down some debt and potentially upgrade the stadium and training facilities. The debt caught up with the glazers and this was their only way to solve it.

We can't continue to post losses. No matter how much they increase revenue we keep coming up short. The debt has finally become unmanageable and Jimmy has saved them.

I thought he was buying the shares of the Glazers that want out? In which case they trouser it all? Or are they staying and diluting so it go’s to what you have outlined?

Originally Posted by The taste of...

I thought he was buying the shares of the Glazers that want out? In which case they trouser it all? Or are they staying and diluting so it go’s to what you have outlined?

Not sure the Glazers would dilute their control and make a financial loss as the money is pumped into to club.

'Jim gets us'

Just fold the £#%&!ing club already.