Another Mou classic quote

Originally Posted by Ethers

Would also point out that City have only conceded one goal more than us, but look at how many more goals their defenders have created.

Viewing a defence simply in terms of goals conceded is outdated thinking.

Yes, you can argue that with the risks their defence takes, conceding just one more than the tightest defence is a great record. Given they are almost guaranteed to outscore everyone, for them having a defence within a few of the best is almost a title guarantee.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I don't think we have the best defenders tbh. Especially those at City and Spurs are better than what we have imo.

I'd expect United and Chelsea to be the best defensive sides as we have the most defence-focused managers out of the top six clubs. Both teams will base their tactics on not leaving gaps at the back and making few errors in possession.

It'll keep us pretty solid against most sides in the league, but perhaps the real standard of our defenders is exposed in the big games, especially away from home. For a team with the best defensive record, you don't back us to keep a clean sheet in a big game.

As a group, not much in it imo.

You might cherry pick one or two over our own, but there's no one side you look at with defensive envy.

Certainly nothing like the standard in the league around ten years ago.

And if shows in defensive records and performances


There isn't a side in the top six I'd feel confident in keeping a clean sheet in a 'six pointer'.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Yes, you can argue that with the risks their defence takes, conceding just one more than the tightest defence is a great record. Given they are almost guaranteed to outscore everyone, for them having a defence within a few of the best is almost a title guarantee.

Definitely.

The level of risk you're taking affects it too. Look at Liverpool. They purr about their football and scratch their heads as to how theu can't close games out.

Because that's the cost of your style of football.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

As a group, not much in it imo.

You might cherry pick one or two over our own, but there's no one side you look at with defensive envy.

Certainly nothing like the standard in the league around ten years ago.

And if shows in defensive records and performances


There isn't a side in the top six I'd feel confident in keeping a clean sheet in a 'six pointer'.

Would probably have said that about most sides in PL history other than Mou's first Chelsea team tbh. Agree about player standard.

On a side note, it's crazy how many of the Premier League records Chelsea hold, given they've only won four titles. Under different managers too: Mou has the record for points and goals conceded; Conte the record for wins; Ancelotti the record for goals scored.

Even with the season City are having those records look hard to match.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Would probably have said that about most sides in PL history other than Mou's first Chelsea team tbh. Agree about player standard.

On a side note, it's crazy how many of the Premier League records Chelsea hold, given they've only won four titles. Under different managers too: Mou has the record for points and goals conceded; Conte the record for wins; Ancelotti the record for goals scored.

Even with the season City are having those records look hard to match.

Sure they have all these records, yet five titles (I think you've forgotten Conte's, easy to do ) to United's thirteen in the Premier era. The impression that leaves is that Freggle was the great all-rounder, the great adapter... there's no one way to win.

For all Mourinho's "pragmatism" gets talked up to excuse his disdain for proper football when it counts, it seems the great pragmatist was the auld bastard himself

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

Definitely.

The level of risk you're taking affects it too. Look at Liverpool. They purr about their football and scratch their heads as to how theu can't close games out.

Because that's the cost of your style of football.

I think Klopp's disinterest in possession can cost him at times. You don't have to actually go defensive, but learn to keep the ball at times and add some patience and intelligence. But it goes against the type of game he wants - hectic, messy and full of mistakes.

So we’ve statistically got the best defence and third best attack in the league?

If only we were as good as Spurs

Originally Posted by 20 times

So we’ve statistically got the best defence and third best attack in the league?

If only we were as good as Spurs

If only we were as good as Spurs when we played Spurs.

It's a conundrum.

Originally Posted by andyroo

If only we were as good as Spurs when we played Spurs.

It's a conundrum.

Not really a conundrum. It’s better to be 2nd and have scored more and conceded fewer than the 5th placed team than win one game. That one game was admittedly a holicaust

Originally Posted by 20 times

Not really a conundrum. It’s better to be 2nd and have scored more and conceded fewer than the 5th placed team than win one game. That one game was admittedly a holicaust

It's not just that one game though is it.

We go picking up points for the sake of them then when under the slightest bit of real pressure we crack. The kind of thing we used to forever laugh at Liverpool or, hey, Spurs for. You can bet your arse they're laughing at us and our delusions of grandeur too.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I think Klopp's disinterest in possession can cost him at times. You don't have to actually go defensive, but learn to keep the ball at times and add some patience and intelligence. But it goes against the type of game he wants - hectic, messy and full of mistakes.

Nicely put.

It really is the price they play.

Originally Posted by andyroo

It's not just that one game though is it.

We go picking up points for the sake of them then when under the slightest bit of real pressure we crack. The kind of thing we used to forever laugh at Liverpool or, hey, Spurs for. You can bet your arse they're laughing at us and our delusions of grandeur too.

Yes. I’m sure Liverpool are in a position to laugh at others following their defeats against Swansea and WBA.

Spurs too. In our worst 5 year period since the 90s, we’ve still won more trophies than they have over the last 30 years

Originally Posted by andyroo

Sure they have all these records, yet five titles (I think you've forgotten Conte's, easy to do ) to United's thirteen in the Premier era. The impression that leaves is that Freggle was the great all-rounder, the great adapter... there's no one way to win.

For all Mourinho's "pragmatism" gets talked up to excuse his disdain for proper football when it counts, it seems the great pragmatist was the auld bastard himself

Perhaps a key aspect of Ferguson's brilliance in terms of his man-management involved that heavy rotation to keep everyone happy, and meant maybe more drop offs at times. Rotating a lot might cost you reaching record-breaking numbers, but maybe keeping the collective so strong year in, year out helps with sustained competing.

And with creating the truly great sides that win both the league and the European Cup in the same season.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Perhaps a key aspect of Ferguson's brilliance in terms of his man-management involved that heavy rotation to keep everyone happy, and meant maybe more drop offs at times. Rotating a lot might cost you reaching record-breaking numbers, but maybe keeping the collective so strong year in, year out helps with sustained competing.

And with creating the truly great sides that win both the league and the European Cup in the same season.

No mate. Arsenal 2004 side was better because of a single stat.

Doesn't matter that they lost 4 matches that seasons compared to United losing 3 in 1999.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

No mate. Arsenal 2004 side was better because of a single stat.

Doesn't matter that they lost 4 matches that seasons compared to United losing 3 in 1999.

That Arsenal side were utter bottlers in Europe too. It's why the level of fawning over Wenger, even back then, was crazy. His European record is just painfully average. Twenty years at Arsenal and their impact on the Champions League during that time is dreadful.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

That Arsenal side were utter bottlers in Europe too. It's why the level of fawning over Wenger, even back then, was crazy. His European record is just painfully average. Twenty years at Arsenal and their impact on the Champions League during that time is dreadful.

His impact on the premier league isn't much better.

How many titles? Three? That's shit.

None in 14 years and hasn't competed for one properly since 2008.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

His impact on the premier league isn't much better.

How many titles? Three? That's shit.

None in 14 years and hasn't competed for one properly since 2008.

Originally Posted by Billy Redface

His impact on the premier league isn't much better.

How many titles? Three? That's shit.

None in 14 years and hasn't competed for one properly since 2008.

Tbf they have been blown out of the water financially in a league in which, the Leicester nonsense aside, money has had a huge impact on switching the power towards City and Chelsea. But their Champions League showings, just so forgettable. How many big memorable wins have they had? Great European nights at the Emirates?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Tbf they have been blown out of the water financially in a league in which, the Leicester nonsense aside, money has had a huge impact on switching the power towards City and Chelsea. But their Champions League showings, just so forgettable. How many big memorable wins have they had? Great European nights at the Emirates?

I remember one

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Tbf they have been blown out of the water financially in a league in which, the Leicester nonsense aside, money has had a huge impact on switching the power towards City and Chelsea. But their Champions League showings, just so forgettable. How many big memorable wins have they had? Great European nights at the Emirates?

Probably only the one when they beat Barcelona (2-1?)

Originally Posted by 20 times

Probably only the one when they beat Barcelona (2-1?)

Then lost on aggregate