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Unread 17-01-2011, 04:26 PM
Baron
 
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Giggs & Scholes are immense, but they're not as good as they were in their pomp. & that's the argument. I think.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 04:28 PM
Sloane
 
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still buzzing after that amazing game yesterday
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 04:59 PM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloane
still buzzing after that amazing game yesterday
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 05:13 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon
Giggs & Scholes are immense, but they're not as good as they were in their pomp. & that's the argument. I think.
the argument or your argument
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Horst_ Bucholst
 
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think some are being harsh on carrick a couple of loose passes in the first half but apart from that a good performance .
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 05:45 PM
Baron
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
the argument or your argument
It's my argument, & it's irrefutable.

Regardless, they are better than just about everyone else. But not as good as they were. The fact they're currently good enough to be the best players in an unbeaten side top of the league is neither here nor there.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 08:40 PM
Liu Jian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
giggs and scholes would grace any team in the league.

chelsea, city and arsenal would die to have them in their sides.
What, week in, week out?

We've seen Scholes struggle lots of times in a 4-4-2, especially away games that are played at a high tempo.

Giggs should also be used sparingly, and as the Baron has said, while both retain their excellent technique, neither has anything like the stamina or consistency they had in their pomp.

It's a shame that our midfield is so reliant on Nani to be produce a moment of brilliance. Tbf, he's done a bloody good job for a year now, but no one can do it every week.

And for all the talk about our unbeaten run, we were lucky not to lose against Sunderland, West Brom and Villa. Lose a couple of those and the table would look very different.

If City were having the kind of season we currently are, everyone on here here would be calling them 'jammy bastards'. Does anyone think they would get anywhere near as much as credit as the the top reds seem to want to bestow on United's away performances?
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 09:25 PM
borsuk
 
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the united are lucky line is typical media %@#$&!s.

we're top with games in hand, undefeated and with the best goal difference in the league because we're lucky. aye, alright


you can't be lucky over half a season in (virtually) all competitions. course, speak to berties or dippers and we've been lucky for the best part of 20 years but there you go.


btw, for every game we might have lost instead of drawing (sunderland is the main one, maybe west brom as well, the others we were uninspiring but hardly outplayed) there are others we could have won instead of drawing - everton, brum, city etc.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 09:32 PM
Whalefish
 
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It's not that it doesn't matter, it does, but rather the suggestion that if this had happened then we'd be in trouble now is something that I don't really worry about. It didn't happen, I can only hope that they are working on the training ground. Yesterday was nowhere near as bad as some aways this season tbh.

I thought Giggs was dreadful yesterday, really showed his age at times. I'm a fan of Park rate him and we're missing him atm (Valencia too). I hope the club are after another winger in the near future. I don't know who, Dzsudzsák is well worth a look if the price someone like Sanchez rises too much.

If the rumours are true re Henderson then I suspect that's the attacking midfielder and I still think Utd will go after Rodwell if Fergie is given cash to spend in the Summer. Radosav Petrovic at Partizan is one of those links that stood out in recent weeks, a value replacement for Hargreaves perhaps (although he is supposed to be highly rated)?

For me the squad will remain as it is until the Summer. Think Utd could do with a new face now but I really don't know who, to the standard required, could come in and improve the first eleven.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Jethro
 
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IF we win the league it will all be down the defensive shows. Going forward we have been pretty woeful at times. I wouldn't change our back four for any in the league, probably Europe.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 09:48 PM
Liu Jian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
the united are lucky line is typical media %@#$&!s.

we're top with games in hand, undefeated and with the best goal difference in the league because we're lucky. aye, alright


you can't be lucky over half a season in (virtually) all competitions. course, speak to berties or dippers and we've been lucky for the best part of 20 years but there you go.


btw, for every game we might have lost instead of drawing (sunderland is the main one, maybe west brom as well, the others we were uninspiring but hardly outplayed) there are others we could have won instead of drawing - everton, brum, city etc.
Once again borsuk misses the point. Did I say we didn't deserve to be top, or did I say we were lucky against Villa, West Brom and Sunderland?

We probably didn't deserve to beat City or Birmingham. As shit as they were, How many clear-cut chances did we create? Berbatov hit the post against Brum, but then Gardner missed a sitter for them.

If you're happy with United's performances away from home fine, but for me, the 'more competitive league' line doesn't cover all of United's many failings - particularly in the midfield area.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 10:47 PM
borsuk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liu Jian
Once again borsuk misses the point. Did I say we didn't deserve to be top, or did I say we were lucky against Villa, West Brom and Sunderland?

We probably didn't deserve to beat City or Birmingham. As shit as they were, How many clear-cut chances did we create? Berbatov hit the post against Brum, but then Gardner missed a sitter for them.

If you're happy with United's performances away from home fine, but for me, the 'more competitive league' line doesn't cover all of United's many failings - particularly in the midfield area.
why do you assume the post was aimed at you? i was commenting on media %@#$&!s, not your post.


fwiw i don't think we've played well away and i think, much as i hate to say it, that fletcher has been a weak link. atm the carrick - anderson pairing looks much better but we've missed scholes and valencia. rooney too, since even when he's in the side he's not really there. that's the key one, of course. take out the man who leads the line, the main man in attack, and any side will look toothless and nervy.

all ifs and buts anyway. the players we've got are more than capable of playing great football and stuffing teams home and away. the fault isn't in them playing to their potential and it not being good enough, the fault is in too many players not producing what they are capable of, rooney top of the list.

having said all that, i think we've been excellent at home and have played some nice stuff. the 'we've been shite to watch' has been well overdone imo.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 11:28 PM
Liu Jian
 
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We've become sterile to watch away from home. Not much better than City imo.

Fletcher has had a poor season - but that's following 3 seasons of generally excellent form.

Anderson brings energy and can can actually take on a man unlike our other midfielders, but too often he is unable to pull off incisive passes so he gives it away too often.

For me Carrick typifies our recent malaise away from home - in fact he's often been poor since Rome. Indecisive on the ball, inaccurate and unambitious passing, and often his first move is to turn back to goal and play it back to Rio, Vidic or VDS.

Goals generally haven't been a problem, but then against City, Sunderland and Spurs we've looked utterly toothless. It was the same in the Rangers game at OT, and the game in Valencia game was one of the most boring I've seen for a while. Great finish by Chico though eh?

When teams press us high up the pitch, our midfield can't handle it and either give possession away, or turn back to VDS and play a back-pass. Clearly this is a situation that cant continue for much longer without us being punished - Fergie mentioned we were lucky not to concede 4 or 5 against Villa and conceding just the one against West Brom was almost miraculous.

Carrick was probably our worst performer in the Villa game. Made to look like a novice by a couple of twenty year-olds, and completely lacking in %@#$&!s. When you're out for form you need to be willing to compete, yet I don't think I've ever seen such a one-paced midfielder in my life - watch someone like Xavi and you'll see someone not blessed with pace, but able to move play up a gear at any given moment. Carrick lost that ability ages ago.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 11:40 PM
Part 36 Offer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liu Jian

For me Carrick typifies our recent malaise away from home - in fact he's often been poor since Rome. Indecisive on the ball, inaccurate and unambitious passing, and often his first move is to turn back to goal and play it back to Rio, Vidic or VDS.
.

That probably says more about our formation and front players, we've obviously lacked speed and movement up front since Ronaldo departed. Our play is more measured and a lot more sideways. Ronaldo gave us the option of getting it forward as quickly as possible, then we'd have runners like Rooney and Tevez who could cause mayhem.


Quote:
Carrick was probably our worst performer in the Villa game.
No he wasn't. Wes Brown was. That's why he's not been seen since. A truly horrific performance.
 
Unread 17-01-2011, 11:53 PM
Liu Jian
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrick
That probably says more about our formation and front players, we've obviously lacked speed and movement up front since Ronaldo departed. Our play is more measured and a lot more sideways. Ronaldo gave us the option of getting it forward as quickly as possible, then we'd have runners like Rooney and Tevez who could cause mayhem.




No he wasn't. Wes Brown was. That's why he's not been seen since. A truly horrific performance.
I know Berbatov can be reluctant to run off defenders at times, but Nani, Valencia and Rooney are all willing runners. Nani and Valencia (overly predictable at times) are both excellent players but can't be expected to create everything and always be the ones to provide impetus just because Carrick is being pushed back by the likes of Lee Cattermole and Barry Bannan.

And Carrick must have pushed Brown a close second, he was awful. His mistake against Valencia sums him up - he turns on the ball like a bus, loses possession and doesn't have the pace to get back. If we're gonna play him as an ancillary centre-back then fine, but the rest of midfield is gonna have to be improved vastly, because all too often we look clueless against an aggressive team that presses us high up the pitch.
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