United - What the hell is wrong?

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

The feeling amongst most United fans that aren't top as £#%&!.

tbh i think most of those only look forward to going so they can get pissed and act the lad away from their missus.

Originally Posted by borsuk

there's some £#%&!ing shite being spouted on this thread about fergie.

that second half was the first time we've looked like united should this season. it's up to fergie to give them a collective kick up the arse, like he did at half time, and make that the default performance instead of the exception.

it's fergie who needs a kick up the arse, shite team selections, constant tinkering, shite tactics, then embarrassing himself by claiming one of the main reasons we did'nt get a result yesterday was because the ref only played 4 minutes injury time..

And just to clarify, we all know Fergie has forgotten more about football than we'll ever know..but that shouldn't stop us from pointing out the glaringly obvious.

it's like computer games, i haven't got a clue how to design and build an online shooter game but i've played enough to know when it's £#%&!ing up and been done poorly and i've paid £60 for it.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

Anderson and Cleverley are 24 and 23 years old respectively. There's no way they should be sat on the bench on days like yesterday. Virtually in their mid 20s, these should be the peak years of their career for christ's sake.

Nicky Butt clocked up 40 appearances in the 95/96 season and he was 21! :shakehead: The same goes with Beckham, Scholes etc etc.

What happened to THAT fergie? The one who sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis, replacing them with youngsters? The one who bought a 23 year old Roy Keane so when Robson retired we didn't so much as notice a bump in the road when the transition came?

Was anyone else at Old Trafford when we beat bolton 3-0 with 6 home grown kids in the team? we played some wonderful football.

Even in the crunch game of the season away to Newcastle he played a 19 year old phil neville at left back, gary neville at right back and butt in midfield. He'd never do that now.

Going through all those names is depressing as £#%&!

Another thing to note about SAF's insistence on rotating players, back then we had more strength in depth, so rotating said players was a lot easier

Now with a weaker squad compared to yester years what we need is a settled spine and adjustments made in and around them depending on who we play

It really isn't that hard IMO

Scholes & Giggs can still play a role for us but not starting in midfield against a dynamic Spurs side. At home to Reading or something fair enough but not Spurs and def not Citeh away in a title decider :shakehead:

As MJ said earlier I'd much rather see some of the younger guys be given a chance in the team even if we do lose a couple games. Instead of Cleverly playing a couple nice one twos and being hyped to high heaven just because he doesn't pass the ball sideways. It's not fair on him and it doesn't give us a balanced view on what state put team/squad is in

I'm with Magic on this one. Unfortunately I do not see United's problems as capable of being navigated with a good hairdryer

It is really quite alarming that he picked Scholes and Giggs again yesterday after the woeful performance at Anfield. Perhaps you can make an argument for Scholes but Giggs(who I love like Bors loves Scholes) has not produced a performance bar the odd individual moment since the end of the 10/11 season. Up against Walker and Lennon on that side was embarassing to watch

Carrick is 31 now as well, it is easy to forget that with his pensioner teammates. Even at his peak he was not an all action midfielder. Putting those 3 out against a very mobile and aggressive Spurs midfield was asking for trouble, and most of the forum expected to see what actually transpired. You also have a Rio who is perhaps 70% of what he was and the midfield can not offer any cover, it creates such a soft central area and Spurs exploited it in the first half.

Anderson not starting can be understood, he looked shattered at the end of the Newcastle match, but Cleverley had his best spell towards the end of that game, scored a match winning goal and visibly lifted in confidence after that goal. Very surprised that he did not start.

Originally Posted by Thrush

I fondly remember the days when watching United would be something to look forward to and generally be the highlight of the week. The Monday prior to a Big CL game I'd be buzzing.

Just dread matches these days as you just know he'll pick the wrong players in a non-existant system. Can't see it changing anytime soon either which is the worst bit

Agree 100%

Even our victories feel hollow with more questions than answers beig raised e.g. the game against Galatasray

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It is really quite alarming that he picked Scholes and Giggs again yesterday after the woeful performance at Anfield. Perhaps you can make an argument for Scholes but Giggs(who I love like Bors loves Scholes) has not produced a performance bar the odd individual moment since the end of the 10/11 season. Up against Walker and Lennon on that side was embarassing to watch

Carrick is 31 now as well, it is easy to forget that with the his pensioner teammates. Even at his peak he was not an all action midfielder. Putting those 3 out against a very mobile and aggressive Spurs midfield was asking for trouble, and most of the forum expected to see what actually transpired. You alos have a Rio who is perhaps 70% of what he was and the midfield can not offer any cover, it creates such a soft central area and Spurs exploited it in the first half.

Anderson not starting can be understood, he looked shattered at the end of the Newcastle match, but Cleverley had his best spell towards the end of that game, scored a match winning goal and visibly lifted in confidence after that goal. Very surprised that he did not start.

You can't expect a fit, young, professional athlete to play 2 games in 4 days though. it's just crazy talk.

it's worth pointing out that we've no young players anywhere near as good as neville g, neville p, butt, scholes and beckham when people are asking why doesn't fergie risk the youngsters.

we should have replacements for giggs, scholes and keane and we don't, but that's a different argument altogether.

truth bombs going off all over this thread

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

How many times has he had the opportunity to do this, Bors?

How many times have we all seen Giggs and Scholes fail and then them to reappear and for us to fail again? How many times has Evra been lost and cost us goals? His pace has clearly gone, everyone can see it - we seem to have a very capable replacement but does he get selected? No. How many times has Ferguson seen one up top look isolated and we look as likely as scoring as a eunuch - yet he carries on with it. At Anfield, we were very lucky to get away with anything - what was the big change this week? Giggs and Carrick started at Anfield and we got overran with Giggs having a shocker - kick up the arse? No. We continue to look woeful and have done for ages, can you not see it? His reliance on Giggs and Scholes is embarrassing and baffling in equal measure.

The keepers - what the £#%&!? De Gea makes some world class saves but makes one gaff - he's dropped. Meantime, Linders lets in 4 or so - does DDG get back in? No. His confidence must be so £#%&!ing low and that's down to Feries indecision and tinkering.

These 'kicks up the arses' that Ferguson will deffo learn from, what changes? Really, what changes? When was the last time we had a sustained period of playing good football with a settled side? Why has the midfield not been addressed for years?

giggs started on the left yesterday, not in the middle, and got the hook at half-time. fergie almost never makes changes before the hour so to pull his most experienced player off at the break is a sign how £#%&!ed off he must have been. after the break there was a completely different attitude and intensity to our game, which is down to what fergie said and did at half-time. i think it might be the moment where his patience ends with the half-arsed shite we've seen too often.

evra's pace is fine. it's his positioning and concentration that have been the problem.

fergie's not been indecisive with the keepers. he prefers lindegaard atm, clearly. you might disagree but there's nothing indecisive about it.

Originally Posted by ziggyman17

it's fergie who needs a kick up the arse, shite team selections, constant tinkering, shite tactics, then embarrassing himself by claiming one of the main reasons we did'nt get a result yesterday was because the ref only played 4 minutes injury time..

that was a classic fergie bit of bullshit to avoid talking about other things

Another thing lately, how often did current and ex players laud Fergie, practically as a second father figure. Even after leaving.

Two players over summer came out and spoke about him in a negative light. He's definately changed for the worse in many aspects.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

It is really quite alarming that he picked Scholes and Giggs again yesterday after the woeful performance at Anfield. Perhaps you can make an argument for Scholes but Giggs(who I love like Bors loves Scholes) has not produced a performance bar the odd individual moment since the end of the 10/11 season. Up against Walker and Lennon on that side was embarassing to watch

Carrick is 31 now as well, it is easy to forget that with the his pensioner teammates. Even at his peak he was not an all action midfielder. Putting those 3 out against a very mobile and aggressive Spurs midfield was asking for trouble, and most of the forum expected to see what actually transpired. You alos have a Rio who is perhaps 70% of what he was and the midfield can not offer any cover, it creates such a soft central area and Spurs exploited it in the first half.

Anderson not starting can be understood, he looked shattered at the end of the Newcastle match, but Cleverley had his best spell towards the end of that game, scored a match winning goal and visibly lifted in confidence after that goal. Very surprised that he did not start.

This is what annoys me most about the current SAF regime

We all know he's never going to address the glarin omissions in our squad, as past transfer window activity or lack of has proved

But it's just the odd personel choices he makes with what's available that's really baffling

I think anyone with a slight bit of knowledge of football could have told you we'd be trouble from the moment the team sheet was put out. But for some reason SAF deemed it acceptable and to some degree didn't change it in the 2nd half considering the subs made

He rarely if ever changes our shape with intelligent subs anymore, it's just the usual throw on more strikers whenever we're losing attitude :shakehead:

Lets face it, Ferie has always made a few bizzare decisions during a season but he used to learn from his mistakes quickly and not repeat them. Nowadays he's like a moth at a hot bulb and it is frustrating the £#%&! out of everyone. Idiots like us can see what he is doing wrong and yet seemingly no one at the club is able say 'owt. Truly baffling.

Originally Posted by Jack Duckworth

it's worth pointing out that we've no young players anywhere near as good as neville g, neville p, butt, scholes and beckham when people are asking why doesn't fergie risk the youngsters.

we should have replacements for giggs, scholes and keane and we don't, but that's a different argument altogether.

SAF made a rod for his own back I'm afraid. The youngsters aren't good enough and there's no value out there to address our shortcomings so you keep playing players who are clearly past it? Yeah nice one

Originally Posted by borsuk

giggs started on the left yesterday, not in the middle, and got the hook at half-time. fergie almost never makes changes before the hour so to pull his most experienced player off at the break is a sign how £#%&!ed off he must have been. after the break there was a completely different attitude and intensity to our game, which is down to what fergie said and did at half-time. i think it might be the moment where his patience ends with the half-arsed shite we've seen too often.

evra's pace is fine. it's his positioning and concentration that have been the problem.

fergie's not been indecisive with the keepers. he prefers lindegaard atm, clearly. you might disagree but there's nothing indecisive about it.

Bors, whatever Evras problem is then - why hasn't he been pulled? De Gea makes one mistake and he's bombed out. Evra has been shocking, he was dreadful at Anfield. Either side of that, Buttner was class, why doesn't he play?

Honestly now, when was the last time we had a great run playing great, fluid football?

You're in denial about Ferguson, Bors (and that's not a dig). Yesterdays performance which he was so angry with - it was him that put out a team we all knew wasn't good enough. He won't learn.

Originally Posted by Tronics

SAF made a rod for his own back I'm afraid. The youngsters aren't good enough and there's no value out there to address our shortcomings so you keep playing players who are clearly past it? Yeah nice one

i agree he should have replaced scholes, giggs and keane. but that doesn't change the fact that the youngsters we have in midfield aren't good enough, so asking why he doesn't put them in like he did with beckham et al is pointless, imo.

Originally Posted by borsuk

giggs started on the left yesterday, not in the middle, and got the hook at half-time. fergie almost never makes changes before the hour so to pull his most experienced player off at the break is a sign how £#%&!ed off he must have been. after the break there was a completely different attitude and intensity to our game, which is down to what fergie said and did at half-time. i think it might be the moment where his patience ends with the half-arsed shite we've seen too often.

evra's pace is fine. it's his positioning and concentration that have been the problem.

fergie's not been indecisive with the keepers. he prefers lindegaard atm, clearly. you might disagree but there's nothing indecisive about it.

Fergie stopped using Giggs on the wing 3/4 years ago because he no longer had the pace or stamina to play that role. He had a decent spell in midfield bringing some quality and creativity to the play, but that has dried up recently. How at 39 can Fergie logically think that he can go back to the wing and have an impact against Lennon and Walker?

Welbeck is not great in that role but at least he has plenty of energy, good pace, aggression to his game.

Fergie might have been pissed off with Giggs at half time but how could he be surprised?

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Bors, whatever Evras problem is then - why hasn't he been pulled? De Gea makes one mistake and he's bombed out. Evra has been shocking, he was dreadful at Anfield. Either side of that, Buttner was class, why doesn't he play?

Honestly now, when was the last time we had a great run playing great, fluid football?

You're in denial about Ferguson, Bors (and that's not a dig). Yesterdays performance which he was so angry with - it was him that put out a team we all knew wasn't good enough. He won't learn.

Indeed. It's understandable and even admirable to defend Ferguson. It's just also illogical.