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Unread 18-12-2009, 03:03 AM
Serenity Now
 
Default The (statistically) most effective attacking players in Europe's major leagues thus far...

In terms of goals and assists per game. Drawn from the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, and the Bundesliga. Only filter is that they must have played in the equivalent of at least 8 full league matches. Giggs the most effective creator of goals in Europe at 36

 
Unread 18-12-2009, 03:39 AM
Tumescent Throb
 
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where are the figures from and what do they count as an assist?

for example, Giggs got an assist for Berbatov's opener at Stoke but it was arguably Fletcher who made the goal

are assists given for winning a penalty?
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 06:40 AM
Serenity Now
 
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I agree that it's a flawed statistic, but it gets too subjective if you start going in the direction of personally deciding who played the most important pass. It would be possible to do that for one team, to your own satisfaction, but it would be very difficult to do it for a whole league. Let alone for a number of leagues. The best you can do is second pass assists, which some people do calculate, but I've only seen that for the English league.

As far as penalties, my understanding is that they're counted as an assist if the person who wins the penalty doesn't take it. I'd have to check though.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 07:53 AM
Zorg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now
I agree that it's a flawed statistic, but it gets too subjective if you start going in the direction of personally deciding who played the most important pass.
Which is why statistics like this in relation to sport mean next to nothing.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 08:18 AM
BryanRobson'sLiver
 
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We need to sign Frau!
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 08:31 AM
Serenity Now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorg
Which is why statistics like this in relation to sport mean next to nothing.
I'm not so sure. Whenever I look at chances created and assists, in my experience they generally do correlate pretty well with who I subjectively think to be creative players. I also think this kind of thing can indicate, to some extent, if you're significantly under or overrating certain players (albeit more so after a season or two than after a dozen games).
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 10:18 AM
MrBishi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now
Giggs the most effective creator of goals in Europe at 36
Slightly less APM than Fibreglass according to your chart
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 10:22 AM
Serenity Now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBishi
Slightly less APM than Fibreglass according to your chart
You're absolutely correct. Although in my defence he was top before I updated the data
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 10:23 AM
forzagarza
 
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£#%&! off marlo
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 10:45 AM
MrBishi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now
You're absolutely correct. Although in my defence he was top before I updated the data
Some fairly interesting things it throws up though. Shows two reasons why the Arse are doing so well at the moment (and also suggests that if you stop those two, they're £#%&!ed)... also interesting to see the Roon with 0 assists. Certainly more selfish for club & country these days.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:00 AM
borsuk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBishi
Some fairly interesting things it throws up though. Shows two reasons why the Arse are doing so well at the moment (and also suggests that if you stop those two, they're £#%&!ed)... also interesting to see the Roon with 0 assists. Certainly more selfish for club & country these days.
the zero assists thing is highly misleading. a player like rooney, whose movement and energy is top notch and who occupies several defenders at once, pulls players out of the way and makes space for others. he's involved in virtually all united's goals, even if he doesn't actually touch the ball, whereas a player like ibrahimovich, whose game is all about what he does with the ball, figures far more prominently.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:05 AM
Serenity Now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBishi
Some fairly interesting things it throws up though. Shows two reasons why the Arse are doing so well at the moment (and also suggests that if you stop those two, they're £#%&!ed)... also interesting to see the Roon with 0 assists. Certainly more selfish for club & country these days.
Previously he's maintained a fairly even balance between goals and assists, whereas this season it's all goals. He's already scored as many in the league as he did in the entirety of the prior two seasons. If he keeps up this scoring rate he'll manage around 20 league goals in total, assuming he plays as many minutes as he did over the last couple of years. If can stay fit throughout the season, and play as much as he did in 05/06 and 06/07, then he's on track for 25+.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:18 AM
MrBishi
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
the zero assists thing is highly misleading. a player like rooney, whose movement and energy is top notch and who occupies several defenders at once, pulls players out of the way and makes space for others. he's involved in virtually all united's goals, even if he doesn't actually touch the ball, whereas a player like ibrahimovich, whose game is all about what he does with the ball, figures far more prominently.
He still usually would have got something by now - being up front he should be one of the last links in the chain. Stats like these never really prove much, but they can indicate things, and he has become a lot more selfish. Which I've always wanted to see anyway.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Luffy
 
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surprised benzema is ahead of kaka and ronaldo....you sure this is right? not convinced i can show my mates if its gonna have dodgy data in it.

p.s. rooney with no assists is shocking.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:43 AM
marlo
 
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not suprised by this.

outside of this forum zlatan is rated as one of the best, if not the best striker in world football.

there is no doubt he is the most inform striker in world football. has scored more league goals than games started for barcelona.

close to becoming their main man and also scoring goals, making assists and a few nice flicks while doing this.
things i thought were mutually exclusive.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:44 AM
Withers
 
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If this doesn't flush him out nothing will.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:44 AM
antonin jablonsky
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Withers
If this doesn't flush him out nothing will.
Yup, Fred tish @#%&! of the year is back.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:45 AM
Serenity Now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luffy
surprised benzema is ahead of kaka and ronaldo....you sure this is right? not convinced i can show my mates if its gonna have dodgy data in it.
Ronaldo has only played the equivalent of around 6 full matches in the league, which isn't enough to be included. If he were, he'd be just above Torres on 1.18. Kaka is on 0.49.
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:47 AM
magic_cantona
 
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Oh nooooooooo
 
Unread 18-12-2009, 11:56 AM
marlo
 
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zlatan has really proved himself already to be a good singing. top scorer in la liga while starting less that 10 league games.

scoring a variety of goals.

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