Mourinho's preparations for the Europa final

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Think I've been quite consistent in blaming the club as much as anyone tbh.

I haven't said Mou is the cause of all our problems either. Main criticisms of him have been the usual - approach and youth policy.

What about the youth policy? The man's been here a year mate, and plenty of youngsters got debuts or playing time this season. The approach seemed to evolve as the year went on from a more expansive style to a more pragmatic one as the ineptitude of our forwards became more apparent - surely something which is consistant with your criticism of the players.

United wasn't something that just happened to Van Gaal mate, he had an awful lot of control over personnel and playing style, and tbh he made a pigs ear of it. Awful signings and an approach that made a large portion of the support want to open a vein; and it's easy to criticise the club, but to be fair, who expects Woodward et al to know more about football than Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho? Isn't the club's job to evaluate the right man to run the footballing side, then hire and support them? I don't know about you, but I don't want Woody and the Glazers making any footballing decisions outside of who's the best available manager and what do they need/want.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Didn't he play more teenagers than any other manager last season?
Or was that a wum?

I think it was about minutes. He gave the most minutes to teenagers. Basically due to Rashford playing at least some part most weeks.

Didn't bring anyone through during the season until the games, by his own insistence, he didn't want to play.

He had one job last season: get back in the Champions League, anything else was gravy.

Now we are back there he can start to focus on the wider rebuilding work.

One step at a time.

Originally Posted by utd99

What about the youth policy? The man's been here a year mate, and plenty of youngsters got debuts or playing time this season. The approach seemed to evolve as the year went on from a more expansive style to a more pragmatic one as the ineptitude of our forwards became more apparent - surely something which is consistant with your criticism of the players.

United wasn't something that just happened to Van Gaal mate, he had an awful lot of control over personnel and playing style, and tbh he made a pigs ear of it. Awful signings and an approach that made a large portion of the support want to open a vein; and it's easy to criticise the club, but to be fair, who expects Woodward et al to know more about football than Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho? Isn't the club's job to evaluate the right man to run the footballing side, then hire and support them? I don't know about you, but I don't want Woody and the Glazers making any footballing decisions outside of who's the best available manager and what do they need/want.

I used to give him the benefit of the doubt on the youth issue, but he won't change now. It's not his thing.

We disagree on our assessment of LvG, so no need to keep going over that.

As for club decisions made at the top, there will be times when they have to take some initiative and those calls can have a huge impact. Issuing Rooney with a 5.5-year deal when you're about to sack the manager, for instance. Club directors get away with murder in English football; so little accountability. It's the same at City and Liverpool; managers get the boot while the circus upstairs goes again.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

I used to give him the benefit of the doubt on the youth issue, but he won't change now. It's not his thing.

We disagree on our assessment of LvG, so no need to keep going over that.

As for club decisions made at the top, there will be times when they have to take some initiative and those calls can have a huge impact. Issuing Rooney with a 5.5-year deal when you're about to sack the manager, for instance. Club directors get away with murder in English football; so little accountability. It's the same at City and Liverpool; managers get the boot while the circus upstairs goes again.

The Rooney contract was a mistake for sure, but that was just Woodward supporting the manager. Isn't that what he's supposed to do?

Originally Posted by utd99

The Rooney contract was a mistake for sure, but that was just Woodward supporting the manager. Isn't that what he's supposed to do?

He sacked that same manager about two months later. Either he had no idea he was about to sack a manager less than a year into a six-year deal, or he decided that a guy who he probably was going to bin off can make monumental, long-term decisions for the club.

Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho says everything about the vision at board level. There is none.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Think I've been quite consistent in blaming the club as much as anyone tbh.

I haven't said Mou is the cause of all our problems either. Main criticisms of him have been the usual - approach and youth policy.

who gives a £#%&! what you think........... your a wummer....... that posts shite to get wind up other posters............

Originally Posted by ziggyman17

who gives a £#%&! what you think........... your a wummer....... that posts shite to get wind up other posters............

Bang out of order tbh.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

He sacked that same manager about two months later. Either he had no idea he was about to sack a manager less than a year into a six-year deal, or he decided that a guy who he probably was going to bin off can make monumental, long-term decisions for the club.

Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho says everything about the vision at board level. There is none.

First of all it wasn't two months, and no, I don't believe when they gave Rooney the deal they knew how bad it was going to be under Moyes. Let's face it, hiring Moyes wasn't Woodwards decision but he had to inherit that dropped %@#$&! on his first year in the job. Who have they hired since then couldn't reasonably have been considered the best man for the job at the time? And haven't they supported both men pretty well so far in terms of transfers?

Originally Posted by utd99

The Rooney contract was a mistake for sure, but that was just Woodward supporting the manager. Isn't that what he's supposed to do?

He should have stabbed the @#%&! in the face

Log in after a nice day in the sun.... and stilllll the bullshit rolls on

Originally Posted by dragflick

Log in after a nice day in the sun.... and stilllll the bullshit rolls on

Let me give you a quick update then... Siders brings up Van Gaal and then cries that he can't post anything without people throwing Van Gaal in his face... that's pretty much it.

Originally Posted by utd99

First of all it wasn't two months, and no, I don't believe when they gave Rooney the deal they knew how bad it was going to be under Moyes. Let's face it, hiring Moyes wasn't Woodwards decision but he had to inherit that dropped %@#$&! on his first year in the job. Who have they hired since then couldn't reasonably have been considered the best man for the job at the time? And haven't they supported both men pretty well so far in terms of transfers?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26287482

21st February. With United 11 points off top four.

I'd suggest at that point they had major concerns about Moyes. Either that or they flapped pretty £#%&!ing quickly.

And the job of the club isn't to just sign off signings. Showing some direction and vision would be good. All too rare in English football, and so little accountability. The idea that their sole job is to hire a manager - any big name - and that's it means they get away with murder.

Originally Posted by utd99

Let me give you a quick update then... Siders brings up Van Gaal and then cries that he can't post anything without people throwing Van Gaal in his face... that's pretty much it.

We disagree on our assessment of LvG, so no need to keep going over that.

The problem is the Big Man is very much still in way too many heads

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/26287482

21st February. With United 11 points off top four.

I'd suggest at that point they had major concerns about Moyes. Either that or they flapped pretty £#%&!ing quickly.

And the job of the club isn't to just sign off signings. Showing some direction and vision would be good. All too rare in English football, and so little accountability. The idea that their sole job is to hire a manager - any big name - and that's it means they get away with murder.

Well there's no doubt that we are still a bit hamstrung by a two decade long Ferguson model, how can we not be? All of that will take time to change.
And with regards to Rooney's contract, when do you think the negotiations on that started, do you not think that was Moyes' first order of business when he took over?

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It's a good question, Gav. It really is.

In all honesty I think we had the ideal man for what the club needed in the post-Fergie era. A man of brilliance who was laying the foundations and looked after the long term. But we gave up on him all too soon and he ended up at Sociedad.

I can't tell if you're serious... you can't be serious... are you serious?

Originally Posted by utd99

Well there's no doubt that we are still a bit hamstrung by a two decade long Ferguson model, how can we not be? All of that will take time to change.

That's the shit - why are we ever looking to change a model that brought unprecedented success for two decades?

Originally Posted by utd99

Well there's no doubt that we are still a bit hamstrung by a two decade long Ferguson model, how can we not be? All of that will take time to change.
And with regards to Rooney's contract, when do you think the negotiations on that started, do you not think that was Moyes' first order of business when he took over?

It will take a change in approach. From an approach of the club having no inclination to show some leadership and strategy, to doing so.

For the latter part, of course it would have taken a while. For me though the thing doesn't get signed off until they're sure about the manager for the medium term. Given Rooney's age and decline, it was an absolutely huge decision with lasting impact.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

It will take a change in approach. From an approach of the club having no inclination to show some leadership and strategy, to doing so.

For the latter part, of course it would have taken a while. For me though the thing doesn't get signed off until they're sure about the manager for the medium term. Given Rooney's age and decline, it was an absolutely huge decision with lasting impact.

If Woody doesn't sign off immediately Rooney leaves. Fergie had him halfway out the door when he retired. People weren't talking about a Rooney decline three years ago the same way they are now mate. Many of us could see it, but he lived on reputation for a good fair while until it became obvious to absolutely everyone.*

Well, maybe not everyone.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

He sacked that same manager about two months later. Either he had no idea he was about to sack a manager less than a year into a six-year deal, or he decided that a guy who he probably was going to bin off can make monumental, long-term decisions for the club.

Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho says everything about the vision at board level. There is none.

give me an example of a club that has a medium to long term vision right now that is working?

Originally Posted by Zorg

Didn't he play more teenagers than any other manager last season?
Or was that a wum?

Here is a list of every teenager who made an appearance this season for the top seven clubs, ranked by minutes on the pitch (stats correct at 20 Apr 17): -



So if we look at the actual number of teenage players each team had given minutes to: -

Liverpool 6
Man City 6
Arsenal 5
Everton 4
Man Utd 3
Tottenham 2
Chelsea 1

Liverpool and City had given game time to twice as many teenagers as we had.

We are probably fifth on the list because Mourinho sold/loaned most of our young players at start of the season. Chelsea are bottom of the list because Mourinho was their manager for the last three seasons.

Mourinho will never be one to provide opportunities to or develop youth. To be fair, I think we already knew that.

Originally Posted by utd99

If Woody doesn't sign off immediately Rooney leaves. Fergie had him halfway out the door when he retired. People weren't talking about a Rooney decline three years ago the same way they are now mate. Many of us could see it, but he lived on reputation for a good fair while until it became obvious to absolutely everyone.*

Well, maybe not everyone.

He still had 15 months on his deal didn't he? We had a degree of power there.

I agree most didn't particularly want Rooney to leave at the time, but 5.5 years was a crazy commitment. It's proved a disaster really.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

give me an example of a club that has a medium to long term vision right now that is working?

In England? Southampton would be a decent shout. They're so confident that they now bin managers who get them to cup finals