United Forum
Go Back   United Forum > Manchester United > Manchester United Match Thread Archive
Reply
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:29 PM
Bunker Buster
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by £#%&! KFC
yep think we all feel the same because we felt the same
Always rated rvp.

 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:32 PM
Ethers
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
Always rated rvp.

All the top boys did tbf.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:35 PM
Alvaro
 
Default

Neville having a go at De Gea stupid @#%&!
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:36 PM
plopborsky
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvaro
Neville having a go at De Gea stupid @#%&!
the keeper should have done better does not mean its his fault the £#%&!ing cross should have never come over in the first place.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:36 PM
£#%&! KFC
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Buster
Always rated rvp.

knew he was good but didn't realise he was THAT good......incredible player
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:37 PM
red @rmy
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Blazini
All the top boys did tbf.
Word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mao's Favourite Starling
Honestly don't want him
Quote:
Originally Posted by antonin jablonsky
Rooney's got a better goalscoring record than him over the last few years. He's one ankle injury away from being finished. We have bigger needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borsuk
it would only make sense as a replacement for rooney and given rvp's injury record and age that would be a pretty stupid thing to do unless rooney himself wants out.

welbeck's development should be a priority imo. in a couple of years he'll be one of the best forwards in europe if his development isn't hindered.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:38 PM
£#%&! KFC
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red @rmy
Word.
£#%&!ing hell
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:40 PM
wiganste
 
Thumbs up

I love him as much as our last ace Dutch striker.

I would definitelty £#%&! him off
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:41 PM
Ethers
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red @rmy
Word.
Wow
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:46 PM
Blagger
 
Default

Big Coxy spillin' truthbombs all over the shop, like it's £#%&!ing happy hour at Wetherspoons.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2013/01/...aps-elsewhere/

Quote:
Tottenham 1-1 Manchester United: United stop Bale, but leave gaps elsewhere

The starting line-ups - Cleverley and Welbeck switched after around 15 mins
Tottenham finally managed a last-minute equaliser, after constant pressure throughout the majority of the game.

Andre Villas-Boas used Scott Parker in the holding midfielder role, in place of the injured Sandro, who is expected to be out for the rest of the season. With Emmanuel Adebayor at the Africa Cup of Nations, Clint Dempsey played just behind Jermain Defoe, while Jan Vertonghen’s illness meant he was only on the bench.

Sir Alex Ferguson surprisingly used Phil Jones – effectively in place of the injured Ashley Young when compared with last week’s game against Liverpool, although this obviously meant a change in formation. Wayne Rooney was fit again, but only on the bench after good performances from Shinji Kagawa and Danny Welbeck last weekend.

Dempsey’s late equaliser changed the scoreline and the narrative, but it shouldn’t change analysis of the game – United defended well for long periods, but invited too much pressure and failed to counter-attack effectively.

United formation

The first key issue was Ferguson’s formation. With the versatility of Kagawa, Jones, Welbeck and Tom Cleverley, this could have been a 4-4-2, a 4-4-1-1, a 4-3-3, a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-2 diamond. In the end, it was more or less a 4-2-3-1, although because United spent long periods without the ball, and the wide players dropped back, it was also frequently a 4-4-1-1. Kagawa stayed central, behind Robin van Persie.

Welbeck started wide-right, with Cleverley playing an odd, left-sided shuttling role – part-central midfielder, part-left-sided midfielder. Welbeck was possibly regarded as the better player to help out against Gareth Bale, although Cleverley’s narrowness gave Kyle Walker the chance to get forward – Kyle Naughton, on the other side, is less of a threat because he’s very right-footed.

Whether there was any logic behind Cleverley and Welbeck’s switch, after around 15 minutes, is difficult to say. However, it clearly had an important impact upon the game – van Persie’s opener came after Welbeck had dribbled in from the left, spread the play to the right, then Cleverley had sent a fine, right-footed cross to the far post. It’s difficult to imagine the goal would have occurred had the two wide players not swapped.

United v Bale

Once the formations had been deduced, the key issue was how United tried to stop Gareth Bale. Tottenham had beaten United earlier in the season following a fine display of direct dribbling – and while Vertonghen and Mousa Dembele had contributed to that, Bale was clearly the man Ferguson wanted to stop.

Indeed, United’s whole approach was geared to prevent Tottenham breaking forward into space quickly. Gone was the high pressing, as seen against Liverpool last week, and instead United sat deep in two banks of four, staying compact and allowing Spurs to dominate possession.

As for Bale – his threat was the reason for Phil Jones’ involvement. As I wrote here for the Guardian:

Jones sat patiently in front of the defence, right-of-centre, always in a position to help Rafael da Silva deal with Bale. The Brazilian has fared well in one-against-one situations against the Tottenham winger over the past couple of seasons – Bale score at Old Trafford earlier in the season, but this came when the Welshman charged directly at the centre of United’s defence.

Jones’s positioning here prevented that possibility, as he subtly ushered Bale down the flank, where Rafael’s good defending meant it took Bale an hour to deliver a decent cross. As Bale became frustrated at his lack of space, he wandered into the centre of the pitch, away from both Jones and Da Silva.

That, in itself, was evidence that United’s approach had been successful: Bale’s experiments with a central role last season came after he complained about being double-marked, especially in home games, but he does not possess the all-round ability to thrive from a starting position in the centre, particularly as United remained so deep and compact.


Dempsey

Inevitably, such a focus upon one man meant United were vulnerable to the movement of others. With Jones playing almost as an auxiliary right-back at times, and Michael Carrick a little unsure of his positioning in the first half (he prefers to play right-of-centre), Dempsey got too much space between the lines, forcing Carrick into a rash tackle and a rare booking. United never truly worked out how to cope with Dempsey – as last week’s second half against Liverpool showed, United’s centre-backs are reluctant to come out of the defence to meet a deep-lying forward, for fear of leaving their centre-back colleague exposed one-against-one versus a quick player.

The way the American wandered through the United defence in the second half – seemingly surprising himself by getting into a one-on-one with David De Gea before poking the ball at the goalkeeper – was a good example of United being overly concerned with Bale. Nemanja Vidic, the left-sided centre-back, was dragged all the way over to the opposite side of the pitch to track a run from Bale that wasn’t particularly dangerous. Dempsey waltzed through, and should have scored.

Lennon

The other main threat was Aaron Lennon. The right-winger has been one of Tottenham’s star performers this season, and in concentrating so much attention on Bale, United left Lennon free. Patrice Evra twice fouled him in the first half, leading to a yellow card, and there was one incident where Lennon dribbled inside into a huge space in the centre, because United were so tilted towards the opposite flank.

In the second half Lennon stepped up his game. Evra stood off, and Lennon came deep, turned and dribbled dangerously – substitute Wayne Rooney was the second man to be booked for fouling him. His end product was good – he set up Defoe for the chance that forced Rio Ferdinand to make a fine block, and would later provide the pass for Dempsey’s equaliser. Welbeck, when moved to the left of midfield, did a decent defensive job on Walker – it was simply Lennon leading the fight solo.

Lennon received the ball much less frequently than Bale, but as he was given more freedom, he was far more creative.


United breaks?

Although United were minutes away from recording a clean sheet, their defence had been breached frequently enough for De Gea to be called into action multiple times. It was clear their lack of possession was influenced by the fact they didn’t want to move up the pitch and concede space in behind, but why did they offer so little counter-attacking threat? Just two shots on target is their poorest tally of the season, and completely at odds with their away performance at Chelsea, for example, when they broke superbly down the right.

There were a couple of factors here, ranging from a relatively unspectacular passing display from Carrick, who focused predominantly on his defensive work, to some underhit final balls and some lazy positioning from van Persie, who strayed into an offside position twice when United did break down the right. But the lack of natural wingers was surely a factor – Young and Antonio Valencia were both key players in what seemed Ferguson’s ‘big game XI’ at one point earlier this season, and both have the ability to carry the ball forward at speed. With Young injured, Valencia out of form and Nani out of favour, Ferguson didn’t have that type of player on the pitch, and the juxtaposition with Lennon was telling.

There was little action from the benches. Villas-Boas called for Benoit Assou-Ekotto at left-back – at least he’s on his natural side, unlike Naughton – which prompted Ferguson to call for Valencia, as a more natural wide man than Cleverley. Rooney replaced Kagawa – United’s passing quality seemed to drop, although this was partly because Tottenham’s momentum was gathering anyway.

Conclusion

United were close to holding out – but even if they’d have kept a clean sheet, it would still have been fair to acknowledge they invited a huge amount of pressure. That was largely deliberate, of course, but the fact United were unable to break frequently enough to provide a consistent goal threat – or to force Villas-Boas into leaving players in defensive-minded positions – should be a concern.

But Lennon’s impact was possibly more interesting – his end product can be inconsistent, he should score more, and when both are at their best, Bale is clearly the better player. But not to the extent that United’s strategy suggested today, and future opponents should be careful not to allow Lennon such freedom.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 08:47 PM
Sparky***
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Blazini
Wow
hahahaha £#%&!ing clueless mongs.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 10:44 PM
taff
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergeant Fox
oh I wasn't answering his question.
excellent.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 11:32 PM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by utd99


I believe Utd and Spurs were one and two in the current form table going into the game. Obviously all the teams who won at the weekend have subsequently gained ground.
beaten by everton and drew against qpr and at home to stoke. top form.
 
Unread 21-01-2013, 11:51 PM
red in cumbria
 
Default

They also won at our place.
 
Unread 22-01-2013, 12:11 AM
Tumescent Throb
 
Default

Agree with that zonal marking conclusion in that it is a big concern that United on the break were virtually non-existent once Rooney came on on the hour, and this was not improved upon even when the rapido Valenciano was introduced....
 
Unread 22-01-2013, 12:37 AM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red in cumbria
They also won at our place.
not recently.

plus, we should have won. their form (which is more than just recent results) isn't that great. they've looked quite ordinary.

then again, so have we and we're top of the table.
 
Unread 22-01-2013, 12:38 AM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
Agree with that zonal marking conclusion in that it is a big concern that United on the break were virtually non-existent once Rooney came on on the hour, and this was not improved upon even when the rapido Valenciano was introduced....
only non-existent when rooney came on? sure.
 
Unread 22-01-2013, 01:17 AM
red in cumbria
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb
Agree with that zonal marking conclusion in that it is a big concern that United on the break were virtually non-existent once Rooney came on on the hour, and this was not improved upon even when the rapido Valenciano was introduced....
You're obsessed
 
Unread 22-01-2013, 02:59 AM
MJ Ramone
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by red in cumbria
You're obsessed
You give a sly wink at the end, but you're bang on.
throb likes to think of himself as an 'old fashioned' Football fan. The kind of fan that enjoys the week to week buzz of Football without any distractions or media induced bias. It's all about getting behind the shirts like the genuinely sensible reds are on here - Hark, No Fun, Ged, Carlo etc..

throb however is a hysterical little tart who would rather lose a game if it meant Rooney had a bad performance.
He's completely & utterly consumed by him. Bizarre.
I doubt he's ever given his opinion on a United game on here without pointing out a negative aspect of Rooney's contribution.
4th in the striking pecking order ffs deary me.
 
Unread 22-01-2013, 12:39 PM
Tumescent Throb
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem

he'll need to play every game til then.
Nah, he needs to get his head around being a sub as well. It's not beyond the realms of probability that United will go with RvP up front on his jack over there, ahead of Valencia, Carrick, Jones, Cleverley and Young, say...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
only non-existent when rooney came on? sure.
No you miss the point - United went to counter-attack with their substitutions and it didn't materialise. I could just as easily have presented the comment as counter-attack being non-existent once Cleverley and Kagawa were replaced, but that would have been too subtle for Ramone. The strategy was to make the changes and go to counter and it didn't work.
Reply
Similar Threads for: *Official* Spurs v United Match Thread. Teams & I wish it had been called off
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
*Official* Fulham v United Match Thread. Teams & post match rucks Sparky*** Manchester United Match Thread Archive 418 03-02-2013 10:32 PM
*Official* Spurs v United Match Thread- Teams, Arguments, Gifs and drama inside! Sparky*** Manchester United Match Thread Archive 679 06-03-2012 01:16 AM
*official Fulham v United match thread. Teams, Teams and Teams. Sparky*** Manchester United Match Thread Archive 482 23-12-2011 04:15 PM
*Official* United v Spurs Thread - Teams and Value Sparky*** Manchester United Match Thread Archive 359 02-11-2010 07:35 PM
OFFICIAL: Spurs v United thread. (Teams, links + doom) Sparky*** Football 489 14-09-2009 10:37 AM
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:55 AM.
Copyright ©2006 - 2024 utdforum.com. This site is in no way affiliated to Manchester United Football Club.