Mourinho decimated by Matthew Syed

Originally Posted by jaffo

Generally I'm very fond of our American brothers and sisters but it drives me radio £#%&!ing rental when they do that.

don't get me started on the oREGano and the bayzil

Originally Posted by irk

don't get me started on the oREGano and the bayzil

I use those at home for comic effect

Originally Posted by Grimson

You going on 10 years of saying this doesn't make it true.

American Football depends a lot on athleticism; there is just as much skill. Otherwise, every great athlete in the US would be a multi-millionaire NFL player.

To give just one example - the Strength & Conditioning coach at my club is a former college football receiver. He is a freak athlete and runs the 40 meter sprint at near-Olympic sprinter speeds. He tried to make it in the NFL and couldn't - he wasn't good enough at reading defenses, running his routes (the QB often throws the pass before the receiver has turned around to look at it - if you're not good at routes, you won't catch passes), or disentangling himself at the line from defensive backs (receivers use 'moves' just like a footballer dribbling).

Lineman use all kinds of spins, feints, and moves to deal with their opposite number - otherwise, the bigger man would win every time. But he doesn't. This is true of linebackers too, and most players, really. American football is about being isolated 1v1 with an opponent. Being big and athletic is not nearly enough to win enough of those battles to stay in a job. You need moves, tricks, skills.

Obviously, a QB has to have enormous skill. Some of the best are barely athletes at all, i.e. Manning and Brady.

Originally Posted by jaffo

Generally I'm very fond of our American brothers and sisters but it drives me radio £#%&!ing rental when they do that.

Helps differentiate between this:

and this though:

Originally Posted by dodger

Helps differentiate between this:

and this though:

a drill and a clock radio?

Originally Posted by dodger

Helps differentiate between this:

I have literally no idea what that is

Originally Posted by Camel

smells like total bullshit to me. the nature v nurture debate can't logically come down in total favour of nurture. every football team could potentially have it's own messi if it was all just down to practice\hard work. yet on a planet of 7 billion people there's only one other who even comes close (tries hard enough )?

Answering Grimson and Andyroo, I would have always said talent existed before reading this. I completely agree people can be naturally athletic, certainly genetics play a huge part in this. Talent is only what we see on a superficial aspect and overlooks many aspects in the background.

But to say that a person is born with the ability to become a great sports man/woman is bullshit. Of course it's not one factor and I don't believe in the 10,000 hours idea. But environment ( including where they grow up, parental influences, socioeconomic background and of course coaching) and hard work from the individual plays a huge part.

Purely anecdotal here, I'd have to go research for specific examples, but even recently Wenger bemoaned the fact that many of the top strikers in the world now come from South America, Europe just seems to be incapable of producing them. Why is that? Are South American children born with better ability to play football?

Grimson, I completely respect the fact that you are involved in coaching young players and certainly know more than me in that regard! But I do think it is far too simple to say that someone is talented at whatever, without realising the difference in how a person got to that level, compared to others.

Originally Posted by jaffo

I have literally no idea what that is

Tea strirrer

Originally Posted by tetrisblock

Grimson, I completely respect the fact that you are involved in coaching young players and certainly know more than me in that regard! But I do think it is far too simple to say that someone is talented at whatever, without realising the difference in how a person got to that level, compared to others.

That's not really what I'm saying; it's notONLY natural talent, just as it's not ONLY training/environment. You can't take just any kid and give him the very best coaching, training, nutrition etc and expect him to make it to the top. I've seen it tried (and failed) too many times. There are a ton of factors involved, but merely training/practicing is just one, and it's not enough.

Think about Berbs and his ridiculous first touch: what are the odds that he simply WORKED HARDER than almost every other player of his generation to get that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29czY142IpQ

Of course talent exists ffs.

I'm convinced Messi's neurons fire quicker than anyone else's. It's like everyone else is playing in slow motion.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Of course talent exists ffs.

Just look at the real girls thread. Yeah some of them put 10000 hours in but most of the talent is mostly natural

Originally Posted by Grimson

Agree 100%. Coaching at the academy level with kids who have all had the same amount and level of coaching, the variance in ability is staggering. You look at video footage of pros when they were kids, and they were miles and miles ahead of the other kids, despite not yet coming anywhere near the magical 10,000 hours training 'law.' A ton of factors play into all this, but there is such a thing as natural athletic ability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2IAsgJXP4U

Messi aged 7 - absolutely ridiculous.

Seyd stood as a Labour candidate at the 2001 GE, against John Redwood of all people. No doubt that will help some on here dislike him more

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

Seyd stood as a Labour candidate at the 2001 GE, against John Redwood of all people. No doubt that will help some on here dislike him more

There's no doubt about it Ric.

Hate overdrive..

Originally Posted by Grimson

You going on 10 years of saying this doesn't make it true.

American Football depends a lot on athleticism; there is just as much skill. Otherwise, every great athlete in the US would be a multi-millionaire NFL player.

To give just one example - the Strength & Conditioning coach at my club is a former college football receiver. He is a freak athlete and runs the 40 meter sprint at near-Olympic sprinter speeds. He tried to make it in the NFL and couldn't - he wasn't good enough at reading defenses, running his routes (the QB often throws the pass before the receiver has turned around to look at it - if you're not good at routes, you won't catch passes), or disentangling himself at the line from defensive backs (receivers use 'moves' just like a footballer dribbling).

Lineman use all kinds of spins, feints, and moves to deal with their opposite number - otherwise, the bigger man would win every time. But he doesn't. This is true of linebackers too, and most players, really. American football is about being isolated 1v1 with an opponent. Being big and athletic is not nearly enough to win enough of those battles to stay in a job. You need moves, tricks, skills.

Obviously, a QB has to have enormous skill. Some of the best are barely athletes at all, i.e. Manning and Brady.

It's not skill. It's running drills. That's it. All they do is every thing that £#%&!ing air traffic controller on the touchline with the ludicrous headset tells them. Literally. Every step, every move, every single thing is pre planned. And don't tell me i'm wrong because even in movies where they ham it up and try and make it look dramatic as £#%&! it's still crap.

Now had you said NBA, i've got more truck with that because there is skill and talent involved in dribbling the ball and scoring a long 3 pointer.

But football? Nah. Sorry. Running through cones and doing phil-neville style silly leg drills don't make you talented.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

It's not skill. It's running drills. That's it. All they do is every thing that £#%&!ing air traffic controller on the touchline with the ludicrous headset tells them. Literally. Every step, every move, every single thing is pre planned. And don't tell me i'm wrong because even in movies where they ham it up and try and make it look dramatic as £#%&! it's still crap.

Now had you said NBA, i've got more truck with that because there is skill and talent involved in dribbling the ball and scoring a long 3 pointer.

But football? Nah. Sorry. Running through cones and doing phil-neville style silly leg drills don't make you talented.

I despise American Football, and even I know that's utterly ludicrous.

Originally Posted by utd99

I despise American Football, and even I know that's utterly ludicrous.

I don't care what you think.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

I don't care what you think.

:rattled:

Originally Posted by Cream

Messi aged 7 - absolutely ridiculous.

I was better when I was seven.

My mam told me so.