10 Hag should be sacked tonight

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

I dont even know what your point is tbh (on this subject), I just replied to the post of shit signings. Some were predictably shit, some were surprisingly shit.

It's more indicative of the lack of direction and diligence at the club since post Ferie but I can't blame anyone for getting excited over bringing in a quality or a new player. As has been said, it's not our fault how they've performed when they've actually got on the field.

I’ll try and simplify it for you. When we signed di maria did you think it was a good signing and the club had done had good job signing a full international from Madrid? Just a simple yes or no?

Ah I see, most of the signings were good but the managers were too shit to utilise them properly.

I'm a bit confused though, since you seem to attribute the signings to the managers in question. Particularly in Ten Hag's case.

Or did the club hierachy sign the players?

If that's the case, didn't that same hierachy appoint the managers?


Just trying to work out who it is you think is to blame for the last shitshow of a decade, because it doesn't seem to be anyone. Except the fans perhaps. But definitely not the owners. Or the club. Or possibly the managers. Or the players.

Originally Posted by believe

I’ll try and simplify it for you. When we signed di maria did you think it was a good signing and the club had done had good job signing a full international from Madrid? Just a simple yes or no?

Just to simplify it for you, I've already said I thought Di Maria would be a good signing. Who didn't?

Still not sure revisionism years after the event is the best way to be though.

So far this season you've already scoffed at United fans for enjoying a win over Liverpool and ending their quadruple hopes and now you're mocking people for being excited about class, big name players being signed just because they didn't work out. What next, laughing at people for enjoying Ferguson because United have turned to shit after he left?

Kin ell, Bellers.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Just to simplify it for you, I've already said I thought Di Maria would be a good signing. Who didn't?

Still not sure revisionism years after the event is the best way to be though.

So far this season you've already scoffed at United fans for enjoying a win over Liverpool and ending their quadruple hopes and now you're mocking people for being excited about class, big name players being signed just because they didn't work out. What next, laughing at people for enjoying Ferguson because United have turned to shit after he left?

Kin ell, Bellers.

Absolutely none of that happened you and your gang love making stuff up about me don’t you

Originally Posted by Whip Hubley

Ah I see, most of the signings were good but the managers were too shit to utilise them properly.

I'm a bit confused though, since you seem to attribute the signings to the managers in question. Particularly in Ten Hag's case.

Or did the club hierachy sign the players?

If that's the case, didn't that same hierachy appoint the managers?


Just trying to work out who it is you think is to blame for the last shitshow of a decade, because it doesn't seem to be anyone. Except the fans perhaps. But definitely not the owners. Or the club. Or possibly the managers. Or the players.

Always the manager, I’ve been pretty clear about that. None sure why any of this is relevant. I asked who had been shit signings by the club, like you agreed with me there haven’t been many.

Originally Posted by believe

Absolutely none of that happened you and your gang love making stuff up about me don’t you

Originally Posted by believe

Absolutely none of that happened you and your gang love making stuff up about me don’t you



Always the manager, I’ve been pretty clear about that. None sure why any of this is relevant. I asked who had been shit signings by the club, like you agreed with me there haven’t been many.

But I thought you were pretty insistent the managers made the signings? So the managers have signed good players but have managed them badly?

And it's relevant because you multi quote people who say a signing is good and then when they turn out shit, say it was a shit signing. That's not a contradiction however much you want it to be.

Martial has ‘played’ under LVG, mourinho, ole and ETH. Is he a good signing and are all the managers terrible? Lindelof, Eric Bailly?

Originally Posted by Finport Red

Martial has ‘played’ under LVG, mourinho, ole and ETH. Is he a good signing and are all the managers terrible? Lindelof, Eric Bailly?

Glad you've finally put your pic up

Every signing good, bad or absolutely ridiculous has got multiple paw prints all over them: Woodward, Joel and Avram, Murtough, Arnold, Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole, Ralf and EtH. There's not been an infrastructure in place where one person is to blame. The infrastructure is. Everyone has played their part in this absolute comedy of errors.

The hope is INEOS and that everything has changed now from here on out.

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

Glad you've finally put your pic up

Every signing good, bad or absolutely ridiculous has got multiple paw prints all over them: Woodward, Joel and Avram, Murtough, Arnold, Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole, Ralf and EtH. There's not been an infrastructure in place where one person is to blame. The infrastructure is. Everyone has played their part in this absolute comedy of errors.

The hope is INEOS and that everything has changed now from here on out.

When signing players, you’re either gambling on a prospect, paying too dollar for the world’s best or paying just below for experience, again gambling on how many miles are left on the clock.

When Fergie was here we usually bought the first, occasionally ones who were at the very top of the prospect list and almost nailed on for superstar status, and only very rarely the last, and that usually as a stopgap or out of necessity.

What all those players had was the opportunity to join a club where the culture was right, were winning was paramount and the players knew that they were representing Manchester United, one of the top few clubs in world football. Almost everyone wanted to play for us, and for the right reasons.

That cultural flame has diminished little by little every year for the past decade, medal laden winners replaced by an unhealthy mix of tier 2 experience, no-hopers, has-beens and a range of ‘fingers crossed, here’s hoping’ kids, all of whom were to be the next big thing, and none of whom have been. We’ve given them all salaries befitting those that came before them for their trophies, without them having to give a toss whether they won anything or not, without caring who it was they were representing, and without any penalty for not performing. Or turning up for training. In ten years we went from a squad of players determined to win that next trophy, to one determined to earn as much as possible, Alice as much as possible and hold no personal responsibility for any of the effluent they spray across football pitches up and down the country week in, week out. I despise most of them, a cancer on our club that has left us culturally in the basement of premier league football.

For all the pro/anti arguments there are about ETH, it’s clear that he sees it and is trying to address it. The children of the. Club need to go. Sancho is gone, hopefully never to return. Martial will be gone in a few weeks, rashford should be forced out after his shenanigans earlier this year, and those who can’t be bothered every week,,the varanes, Casemiros and shaws should be not too far behind him.

We needed a reset. Loads were praising the manager last season for doing just that. The standard player revolt and resistance reappeared this season, so now the manager, who we all knew overachieved last season, needs to be booted out half way through the job.

We all know the club needs a total rebuild. To do that properly, almost all the old has to go, sometimes back to the very foundations. That’s where we are at the minute, and all the whole preparing for a third cup final in two seasons.

Originally Posted by believe

Again I’m not sure where I’ve said anything otherwise

Ok let me ask you this. We get Mbappe in the summer, that’s a good signing right? We all agree on that and we’d all be pretty excited yeah?

Ten hags still here, he hates the system and has a shocking year and his wife hates Manchester. He leaves after 12 months.

Is that still regarded as a good signing or is is man united signing shit players?

I get where you’re coming from but I think you’re over complicating it.

‘We’ve had ten years of shit signings’
‘But you expressed happiness about one of them in 2014!’

The tiny number of good signings - i.e. ones almost everyone actually wanted us to sign at the time (obviously debatable but probably Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez and Fernandes) - doesn’t disprove that broadly speaking it’s been a decade of shite.

In fact I’d say there’s a strong argument that Fernandes is the only signing in that time who has actually improved. Maybe Hojlund? Early days though.

The number of managers we’ve had in that time suggests it’s something more than the manager.

You were having a dig at reds enjoying Diallo’s winner against Liverpool the other week. Something about United fans enjoying themselves seems to wind you up

Originally Posted by Zorg

I get where you’re coming from but I think you’re over complicating it.

‘We’ve had ten years of shit signings’
‘But you expressed happiness about one of them in 2014!’

The tiny number of good signings - i.e. ones almost everyone actually wanted us to sign at the time (obviously debatable but probably Pogba, Di Maria, Sanchez and Fernandes) - doesn’t disprove that broadly speaking it’s been a decade of shite.

In fact I’d say there’s a strong argument that Fernandes is the only signing in that time who has actually improved. Maybe Hojlund? Early days though.

The number of managers we’ve had in that time suggests it’s something more than the manager.

You were having a dig at reds enjoying Diallo’s winner against Liverpool the other week. Something about United fans enjoying themselves seems to wind you up

Didn't happen that pal. Mandela Effect.

Can’t believe no one gets what he’s saying. We should have done better with the players we’ve signed. They’ve turned out to be unsuccessful/average/shit but at the time (and in some instances afterwards) are were good players.

We haven’t been out signing the likes of Bebe and Obertan (who were shit signings).

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Can’t believe no one gets what he’s saying. We should have done better with the players we’ve signed. They’ve turned out to be unsuccessful/average/shit but at the time (and in some instances afterwards) are were good players.

We haven’t been out signing the likes of Bebe and Obertan (who were shit signings).

How could we have done better with Di Maria, who never wanted to sign in the first place? Then he got burgled and his wife pressed to get out ASAP. Shouldn't have signed him in the first place and not any managers fault (unless he knew).

Pogba? Terrible performances more or less from the off and most of his highlights came from one game against City, a few YouTube clip passes and then it was new haircuts and dances. Again, not a manager problem, an attitude problem.

I agree with what you've said in essence but there's two of the most high profile (and exciting) signings where they were just @#%&!s. Due process was abysmal.

We could go on all night about the signings. Bruno apart, who's been well worth the cash since SAF left?

With EtHs signings, Hojlund has been good, Antony awful, Mount awful, Martinez great, Malacia awful, Onana awful, Casemiro was great for 3/4 of one season then looks like he wants to desperately be somewhere else etc - but they've also been signed under the circus. Tbf, EtH has been hindered, despite big spending but totally agree, we should be doing a hell of a lot better.

I think every United supporter thoroughly enjoyed the win over Liverpool, though maybe a few didn’t think we need to make a £#%&!ing dvd out of it. We’re not Geordies ffs.

Originally Posted by believe

I’ll try and simplify it for you. When we signed di maria did you think it was a good signing and the club had done had good job signing a full international from Madrid? Just a simple yes or no?

Yes for the first month

Originally Posted by Gypsum Fantastic

Can’t believe no one gets what he’s saying. We should have done better with the players we’ve signed. They’ve turned out to be unsuccessful/average/shit but at the time (and in some instances afterwards) are were good players.

We haven’t been out signing the likes of Bebe and Obertan (who were shit signings).

It's not about them getting what I said, it's about them not wanting to get it because they know I'm right.

Jadon Sancho
Raphaël Varane
Cristiano Ronaldo
Donny van de Beek
Harry Maguire
Bruno Fernandes
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
Daniel James
Fred
Diego Dalot
Romelu Lukaku
Nemanja Matic
Victor Lindelöf
Alexis Sánchez
Paul Pogba
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Eric Bailly
Zlatan Ibrahimović
Anthony Martial
Morgan Schneiderlin
Memphis Depay
Matteo Darmian
Bastian Schweinsteiger
Ángel Di María
Luke Shaw
Ander Herrera
Marcos Rojo
Daley Blind
Juan Mata
Marouane Fellaini

That's the list of players we've signed outside of loans and promoting players from the youth. Outside of maybe two or three all well known established internationals.

Now find me all the post saying they were shit signings........

Originally Posted by BigRonManager

I think every United supporter thoroughly enjoyed the win over Liverpool, though maybe a few didn’t think we need to make a £#%&!ing dvd out of it. We’re not Geordies ffs.

You seem to hate United fans enjoying things.

I'd say until Ten Hag joined the percentage of players recruited that have had at least some success until they fell off a cliff is quite high. Only a third of Ten hags signings have even come close and that includes Martinez who's been missing half the time he's been here and a striker who's got seven league goals.

Originally Posted by believe

It's not about them getting what I said, it's about them not wanting to get it because they know I'm right.

Jadon Sancho
Raphaël Varane
Cristiano Ronaldo
Donny van de Beek
Harry Maguire
Bruno Fernandes
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
Daniel James
Fred
Diego Dalot
Romelu Lukaku
Nemanja Matic
Victor Lindelöf
Alexis Sánchez
Paul Pogba
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Eric Bailly
Zlatan Ibrahimović
Anthony Martial
Morgan Schneiderlin
Memphis Depay
Matteo Darmian
Bastian Schweinsteiger
Ángel Di María
Luke Shaw
Ander Herrera
Marcos Rojo
Daley Blind
Juan Mata
Marouane Fellaini

That's the list of players we've signed outside of loans and promoting players from the youth. Outside of maybe two or three all well known established internationals.

Now find me all the post saying they were shit signings........



You seem to hate United fans enjoying things.

I'd say until Ten Hag joined the percentage of players recruited that have had at least some success until they fell off a cliff is quite high. Only a third of Ten hags signings have even come close and that includes Martinez who's been missing half the time he's been here and a striker who's got seven league goals.

Hugely revisionist and ridiculously black and white. As has already been said around 36 times, people (United fans) are going to be excited about most signings, usually regardless if they

A) don't know the player inside out
B) don't know if that manager will use the player correctly, in a good system and therefore a good team
C) don't know if we'll be getting career long value

Its that instant buzz of a new signing where, apart from a very low number of wums, everyone is usually excited. Before you posted this, I thought I'd totally grasped what you were on about. Not now.
Again.

And then we've (especially since SAF left) haven't got a clue just exactly who wanted these players signing. We don't know how many of these players have signed, simply because

A) we've offered more money than anyone else (other managers have alluded to this about Maguire for instance)
B) that player has only signed because his options were limited (Di Maria the biggest example)
C) it's a Woodward vanity project and the manager wasn't all that keen (take your pick)
D) the deal has been brokered by lunatics that's then impacted on the rest of the managers transfer kitty (Stark examples everywhere - especially when we've had to bring Ighalo and Weghorst in because the kitty has gone on overpriced, idiotic signings)

And there's so many more caveats as to why good looking signings have fallen flat on their face - it's not just the manager and its not just the board, it's everything all at once.

Are you saying that you've never thought "£#%&!ing hell, he'll be mint!" but then it turned out that the player was never a United player? Just because the player hasn't always been called a terrible signing, it doesn't mean it was obvious and you can't blame anyone for not being 100% spot on about it.

Then you've finished on a negative about Hojlund. It's genuinely like you want to suck any joy out of being a United fan. He was signed as a 20 year old and ideally was going to have experience around him (Martial, lol) to help him. No, not at United. Martial downed tools and we had no money to bring in support. With everything factored in, you've picked just his league goals to whinge about. He was top scorer in the champions league until a few weeks ago and he's been an obvious shining light in this steaming turd of a season.

Maybe the only time we'll be able to judge a good signing in the past 13 ish years or not, will be next season when we've had a proper infrastructure in place and maybe a fresh start.

Why do you keep mentioning fans being excited it’s absolutely nothing to do with what I’m saying. I love the bit about not knowing anything about them

And again why do you have to twist everything i say it’s like an obsession with you. I wasn’t being negative abo it Hojlunf at all, I think he’s a great player and been put in to a terrible situation and dealt with it remarkably. Who put him in that situation? Oh yes the manager. The manager who thought a worse replacement keeper and a midfielder we didn’t need or want was more important that an experienced striker to support Hojlund.

Your post is a perfect highlight of the top red stages on here

Stage 1 - sign player “great signing!!” “Manager is building his team!!” “Woodward
Stage 2. - player starts well “top reds know” “manager knows”
Stage 3 - player drops and receives criticism “call yourself United fans!!”
Stage 4 - player turns to shit through everything related to the management of the team and leaves “shit singing!!” “Manager never wanted him!!” “£#%&!ing Woodward/Glazers!!”

To make the reference even more clear I’ll give you two examples happening right now. People of here think Shaw and Sancho are bad signings. Both were regarded as the best in England in their positions when we bought them shit signings!!

Originally Posted by believe

Why do you keep mentioning fans being excited it’s absolutely nothing to do with what I’m saying. I love the bit about not knowing anything about them

And again why do you have to twist everything i say it’s like an obsession with you. I wasn’t being negative abo it Hojlunf at all, I think he’s a great player and been put in to a terrible situation and dealt with it remarkably. Who put him in that situation? Oh yes the manager. The manager who thought a worse replacement keeper and a midfielder we didn’t need or want was more important that an experienced striker to support Hojlund.

You've listed 30 ish players, so it's not all about this manager, is it? And I've already agreed on how bad (Hojlund, Martinez) his signings have been. But surely, with everything you know about the Glazers, Woodward, Murtough, Arnold etc - surely you're not laying every signing down to the manager(s)?

From what we've read in different places, EtH valued Antony at 25m. It was 'negotiated' to over 85m by our crack board. And I'm not sure who green lighted Mount at over 60m going into his last year. Even with how bad we undoubtedly have been under EtH this season, you still can't put the state of the signings all down to him.

Last season, Onana was in the Champions League team of the season and looked great. Up for the Balon D'Or. A genuine progression from DDG (still a free agent) and we'd finally be able to play out from the back. Turns out he's abysmal and we can't.

Edit: Luke Shaw is an absolutely brilliant player and was before we signed him. I'm not sure anyone could've predicted his injury record after he signed

Originally Posted by magic_cantona

You've listed 30 ish players, so it's not all about this manager, is it? And I've already agreed on how bad (Hojlund, Martinez) his signings have been. But surely, with everything you know about the Glazers, Woodward, Murtough, Arnold etc - surely you're not laying every signing down to the manager(s)?

From what we've read in different places, EtH valued Antony at 25m. It was 'negotiated' to over 85m by our crack board. And I'm not sure who green lighted Mount at over 60m going into his last year. Even with how bad we undoubtedly have been under EtH this season, you still can't put the state of the signings all down to him.

Last season, Onana was in the Champions League team of the season and looked great. Up for the Balon D'Or. A genuine progression from DDG (still a free agent) and we'd finally be able to play out from the back. Turns out he's abysmal and we can't.

Edit: Luke Shaw is an absolutely brilliant player and was before we signed him. I'm not sure anyone could've predicted his injury record after he signed

Should be fired for that alone.

And I'm not sure Onana was "up for the Balon D'Or". He was named at #23 on a shortlist of 30 and received two points in total The winner got 462.