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Unread 21-01-2012, 08:50 AM
borsuk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Return of JC
It's not easier to win the league than it was. It's much harder. We've won the league with 78 in the past. We had Roy Evan's Liverpool and Leeds as our closest rivals for large parts of previous seasons. The top two isn't set in stone as it once was, nor is the top four and you rarely get whipping boys of the standard of Barnsley and Swindon anymore. We may not be as stylish as we used to be (also debatable), but to suggest the league isn't as strong or it's easier to win is false.
needing more points to win doesn't mean the league is stronger, it's actually more likely that the league as a whole is weaker and the top few (three atm) are distancing the rest like in spain or scotland.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 09:34 AM
Pudge_Bear
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon
I'm a slapped arse & I'd like to see good football, youth given a chance & United not dragged over the £#%&!ing line.

Panache, style, class... It's missing & it's depressing.

So yeah, while I'd inevitably be delighted it will forever be tempered with that feeling that it is under duress. I'm perfectly aware of how it sounds but £#%&! it.
De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Twins and to a lesser extent Fryers - all around the 20 mark, with 5 of them probably in our first choice 11. Add the brand into that if you want to make it 6. To say youth is not being given a chance is complete bullshit. I think what you actually mean is 'see Morrison given a chance'.

On top of that we have score 52 goals scored in 21 league games. Alright there has been a few shockers along the way, but there has been a lot of stuff that's decent to watch this season.

I think people need to let go of this Morrison thing. If he doesn't want to get his head down and do basic £#%&!ing things like turn up for training, he is useless to any top football team, however talented he might be. The dream is we have a potentially world class attacking midfielder coming that could be a key player for us for a decade. Unfortunately, shame as it is, that just doesn't match the reality. If there is a manager in the history of the game with a record of bringing in young players at that right time and very very rarely getting it wrong, it ours. If he doesn't think he is ready/deserves a place then that should be good enough for anyone.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 09:52 AM
borsuk
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge_Bear
De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Twins and to a lesser extent Fryers - all around the 20 mark, with 5 of them probably in our first choice 11. Add the brand into that if you want to make it 6. To say youth is not being given a chance is complete bullshit. I think what you actually mean is 'see Morrison given a chance'.

On top of that we have score 52 goals scored in 21 league games. Alright there has been a few shockers along the way, but there has been a lot of stuff that's decent to watch this season.

I think people need to let go of this Morrison thing. If he doesn't want to get his head down and do basic £#%&!ing things like turn up for training, he is useless to any top football team, however talented he might be. The dream is we have a potentially world class attacking midfielder coming that could be a key player for us for a decade. Unfortunately, shame as it is, that just doesn't match the reality. If there is a manager in the history of the game with a record of bringing in young players at that right time and very very rarely getting it wrong, it ours. If he doesn't think he is ready/deserves a place then that should be good enough for anyone.
bob on fella
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 10:00 AM
Stickman
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Return of JC
It's not easier to win the league than it was. It's much harder. We've won the league with 78 in the past. We had Roy Evan's Liverpool and Leeds as our closest rivals for large parts of previous seasons. The top two isn't set in stone as it once was, nor is the top four and you rarely get whipping boys of the standard of Barnsley and Swindon anymore. We may not be as stylish as we used to be (also debatable), but to suggest the league isn't as strong or it's easier to win is false.
Surely winning it with less points would indicate it was more competitive if anything.

Imo Arsenal 97-99 and us 98-2000 would have waltzed this. As would Chelsea 04-07 and (possibly 08) and United 06-09.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 10:18 AM
Bunker Buster
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge_Bear
I think people need to let go of this Morrison thing. If he doesn't want to get his head down and do basic £#%&!ing things like turn up for training, he is useless to any top football team, however talented he might be. The dream is we have a potentially world class attacking midfielder coming that could be a key player for us for a decade. Unfortunately, shame as it is, that just doesn't match the reality. If there is a manager in the history of the game with a record of bringing in young players at that right time and very very rarely getting it wrong, it ours. If he doesn't think he is ready/deserves a place then that should be good enough for anyone.
He does turn up for training ffs.........The things people read and quote...

Fergie and Morrison both want to see him in the first team for years to come...

And fergie has never been wrong before has he ?

If we win the league of course I'll be happy, but its not looking good tbf. We keep dropping points in winnable games..
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 12:21 PM
The Watcher
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon
I'm a slapped arse & I'd like to see good football, youth given a chance & United not dragged over the £#%&!ing line.

Panache, style, class... It's missing & it's depressing.

So yeah, while I'd inevitably be delighted it will forever be tempered with that feeling that it is under duress. I'm perfectly aware of how it sounds but £#%&! it.
How I felt about last season and this. Whether we end the season with a shiny pot or not, it will still have been nine months of uninspired, turgid, predictable shite.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 12:32 PM
magic_cantona
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
How I felt about last season and this. Whether we end the season with a shiny pot or not, it will still have been nine months of uninspired, turgid, predictable shite.
The start of the season was fantastic tbf.

However fleeting.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 12:38 PM
dunk
 
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One thing about the Morrison and Pogba situations is that they have taken the spotlight and pressure off the other lads from the youth system that the club have high hopes for, the Keanes, Cole, Lingard, Tunners, Fryers, Cofie, Thorpe etc... Not a bad thing...

I hope they both sign and are given a fair crack of the whip at making it at OT by their outside influences, but there are other very good kids coming through...
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 12:39 PM
The Watcher
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_cantona
The start of the season was fantastic tbf.

However fleeting.
Three weeks I'll cherish for the rest of my life.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 01:03 PM
magic_cantona
 
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Watcher
Three weeks I'll cherish for the rest of my life.
Touché

Bastard.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 01:36 PM
24hr Leavesey
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk
One thing about the Morrison and Pogba situations is that they have taken the spotlight and pressure off the other lads from the youth system that the club have high hopes for, the Keanes, Cole, Lingard, Tunners, Fryers, Cofie, Thorpe etc... Not a bad thing...

Aye, maybe, for the players you mentioned, I get the impression from what little I've seen of them that they're not £#%&! ups. The media have never really sctrutinized our kids before they made first team appearances, that may change after all this malarkey. Welbecks contract non story would not have materialised before this, I know he's no kid but try telling the gutterpress that. Anyway, United will win the league this year but after that I have no £#%&!ing clue
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 03:41 PM
jem
 
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I would guess based on last season that it is extremely unlikely I will stop moaning. if we win the league, glazer dies, we buy a couple of midfielders and iran bombs abu dhabi, I might allow myself a wry smile. jonny evans would have to be on holiday in abu dhabi at the time, though.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 06:38 PM
Baron
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge_Bear
De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Twins and to a lesser extent Fryers - all around the 20 mark, with 5 of them probably in our first choice 11. Add the brand into that if you want to make it 6. To say youth is not being given a chance is complete bullshit. I think what you actually mean is 'see Morrison given a chance'.

On top of that we have score 52 goals scored in 21 league games. Alright there has been a few shockers along the way, but there has been a lot of stuff that's decent to watch this season.

I think people need to let go of this Morrison thing. If he doesn't want to get his head down and do basic £#%&!ing things like turn up for training, he is useless to any top football team, however talented he might be. The dream is we have a potentially world class attacking midfielder coming that could be a key player for us for a decade. Unfortunately, shame as it is, that just doesn't match the reality. If there is a manager in the history of the game with a record of bringing in young players at that right time and very very rarely getting it wrong, it ours. If he doesn't think he is ready/deserves a place then that should be good enough for anyone.
Youth, & then buying youth are two separate things.

De Gea - £18m
Smalling - £10m
Jones - £16m
Welbeck - legitimate youth product
Twins - Combined £7m but semi-legit youth products
Fryers - legit youth product

So approx. £50m worth of talent there. That's not youth, it's just buying young players.

We've bought a man out of retirement for £#%&!s sake rather than give youth a chance in our midfield. We would rather play Carrick, or Fletcher, or Evra at centre half than play a youth player.

I'm sure everyone thinks Ravel the moment Youth is mentioned, but it's simply a philosophy that was adhered to, but isn't anymore. Fergie has become more conservative as he's got older, he's doing the best with the resources & as prosaic as some of our football has been it was glaring that the youngsters we do have come on leaps & bounds for playing.

I honestly know I sound like a slapped arse, I'm as grateful to Fergie's genius for making the best of things as anyone, but where he once trusted the youngsters, he seems to have lost his nerve a touch.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 06:46 PM
red in cumbria
 
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Yep, I'm certain that SAF never used to bang on about "experience" anything like as much as he does these days

Exemplified by how he picked Gibbo to start at Palace ahead of , FFS :shakehead:
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 09:37 PM
wonky no
 
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playing scintillating football and winning the league doesn't always go hand in hand. with our injuries and city's squad taken into account i'm pretty £#%&!ing amazed that we've got anyone complaining.

its obvious our midfield lacks guile and %@#$&!s but going out and buying one isn't as easy as it looks. i'm pretty sure saf has a vision of the future and the likes of cleverly are part of it. buying someone might be an immediate answer but the long term effects might be too much to lose if kids like cleverly are moving on because theyt cant get a game.

nurturing partnerships and systems with a set of players from an early age has far more benefits than buying a city/chelsea/blackburm/madrid style squad. the evidence is there.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 11:26 PM
jem
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky no
playing scintillating football and winning the league doesn't always go hand in hand. with our injuries and city's squad taken into account i'm pretty £#%&!ing amazed that we've got anyone complaining.

its obvious our midfield lacks guile and %@#$&!s but going out and buying one isn't as easy as it looks. i'm pretty sure saf has a vision of the future and the likes of cleverly are part of it. buying someone might be an immediate answer but the long term effects might be too much to lose if kids like cleverly are moving on because theyt cant get a game.

nurturing partnerships and systems with a set of players from an early age has far more benefits than buying a city/chelsea/blackburm/madrid style squad. the evidence is there.
that would be fine if we hadn't needed a midfield for over 5 years.
 
Unread 21-01-2012, 11:30 PM
wonky no
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jem
that would be fine if we hadn't needed a midfield for over 5 years.
we've needed a keane for over five years just like we've needed a kanchelskis for 10! we've always adapted players, like beckham for example.

we've only ever had the complete team on two occassions since and including the babes.
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