should clubs be allowed b-sides lower down the league?

Andre Villas-Boas said yesterday that the development of young English footballers is so flawed that top clubs should be allowed to have feeder teams in the lower divisions to enable the likes of Chelsea to bring players through from their academies.

...

Villas-Boas said: "The youth development system in England is not right, in my belief. There is plenty of effort and talks to get it right but in my opinion it is not. The reserve team league is not competitive. The youth levels are not competitive enough. The FA Youth Cup: does it favour talent or competition?

"In my opinion there is a missing link between age groups in all competitions. There should be national championships played between teams from around the country. The older ones should play nationally. The younger ones should play regionally. You promote more talent and competitiveness and it is that which generates talent and willingness to drive."

It was put to him that at Barcelona, Pep Guardiola has given first-team debuts to 25 players who have been promoted from the club's feeder team since he took over as manager in 2008. Why had Chelsea failed to bring any significant player through from the youth team since John Terry's emergence more than 10 years ago?

"Because the gap between the reserve team and the first-team is immense here," Villas-Boas said. "Barcelona 'B' play in the equivalent of the Championship. If the European model is applied in England, it could be tested. The reserve team serves the first-team, but it doesn't serve the progression of talent coming through.

"It [buying a feeder club] could be a solution. There is more of a cultural identity [with the parent club] if it's called a 'B' team. It's the same name, the same environment. If it's a feeder club, I couldn't call a player up to my team until the transfer window opens.

"What happens in Barcelona 'B' is a good model in terms of competitions. If the talent is playing in [a feeder club] in a competitive league you can call up players, There is immediate identification by the players with the process you're trying to implement in your first team. And it could be a great benefit because you don't have to work with a 26-man squad, but a 19-man squad and just recall the best young guys. If Ryan [Bertrand, who has had seven loan periods] and Josh [McEachran] could make the jump from Championship to Premiership every week, their involvement would be better."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...e-6292179.html

Yep, having our kids playing competitive football the way we want them to rather than wasting in the reserves or risking having some nob head mismanaging them a la Rossi would be very good for their development.

oooh but what's gonna happen to those poor little clubs in championship? This will devalue the competition

Originally Posted by rafabio

oooh but what's gonna happen to those poor little clubs in championship? This will devalue the competition

They might fill their grounds once a season when everyone in their shitty little town goes to see United. Yes, Stockport, Rochdale/Oldham/Middleton and Macclesfield, I am looking at you.

You know what, even though I agreed with the sentiment you just come across as a £#%&!ing little #@&%!.

You can only see positives for the top clubs and ultimately National sides in that type of set up. Young players and squad players playing competitive games every week, learning together, developing understanding and partnerships before they come into the senior side. How often in recent years have we seen a scratch Cup side struggle for rhythm, players who have never played together.

It has to be better for young players to get games at 18-19 instead of reserve matches or loans to other clubs. You would have to guard against burn out.

There would be a no promotion clause on this arrangement, the championship as a ceiling. Would it be accepted though? The pyramid system in England is a proud tradition, every team has the opportunity to advance and introducing what would be an artificial block to some of the teams would be challenged. Imagine the top 6-8 teams in the championship being Premier reserves teams and promotion starting at mid table?

The Pl and Championship as separate competitions under different management would make it unlikely in the short term as well.

the only way i think this could work would be if a division 4 was introduced and all divisions were reduced to 20 teams, or 18. The reserve sides would start in division 4 but could work their way up to the championship. Of course none of this would happen because of the traditions of this country and the FA just don't have the balls to introduce any kind of change, even if long term it would benefit them

United 'B' away days in League 1

What do they do in Germany? They had a big shake up and changed the youth development side. What path do they have for players 18-21?

Yep lets disolve the lower league sides. Decimate communities and overwrite history for the sake of a handful of big clubs who would join a european league tomorrow if they had their chance.

Thatcher would be proud.

Originally Posted by rafabio

oooh but what's gonna happen to those poor little clubs in championship? This will devalue the competition

£#%&! them, not our fault they're shit

If it did happen Torres & Carroll might actually get some goals

Originally Posted by lookingforeric

If it did happen Torres & Carroll might actually get some goals

Originally Posted by Tiberian

You can only see positives for the top clubs and ultimately National sides in that type of set up. Young players and squad players playing competitive games every week, learning together, developing understanding and partnerships before they come into the senior side. How often in recent years have we seen a scratch Cup side struggle for rhythm, players who have never played together.

It has to be better for young players to get games at 18-19 instead of reserve matches or loans to other clubs. You would have to guard against burn out.

There would be a no promotion clause on this arrangement, the championship as a ceiling. Would it be accepted though? The pyramid system in England is a proud tradition, every team has the opportunity to advance and introducing what would be an artificial block to some of the teams would be challenged. Imagine the top 6-8 teams in the championship being Premier reserves teams and promotion starting at mid table?

The Pl and Championship as separate competitions under different management would make it unlikely in the short term as well.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop

Yep lets disolve the lower league sides. Decimate communities and overwrite history for the sake of a handful of big clubs who would join a european league tomorrow if they had their chance.

Thatcher would be proud.

Polemic eh?

Truth be told, the likes of Swansea & Norwich are showing the problem isn't so much youth development, but coaching through the ranks. So many think that the first rule of lower leagues football is a couple of big £#%&!ers through the spine of the side & "get amongst them" as opposed to passing & moving & using ability. The managerial structure is Jurassic in it's approach to modern football, the considered opinion that physicality, power, pace & so forth is paramount is archaic.

Having your own B side gives you control, & as Big Tibs say's might benefit those who can afford to run a 2nd team but it's offset by Big Fuzzles opining of 'at what cost' ?

Is football so important that our B team should take priority over the smaller communities? Tens of thousands of people take enormous pride in those little shit holes, it's not acceptable in my mind to disintegrate that when we should have a far wider overhaul of coaching from ground up.

I blame Carlo & his kick & rush approach, I read it on his blog.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

. So many think that the first rule of lower leagues football is a couple of big £#%&!ers through the spine of the side & "get amongst them" as opposed to passing & moving & using ability. The managerial structure is Jurassic in it's approach to modern football, the considered opinion that physicality, power, pace & so forth is paramount is archaic.

it's funny cause matt busby realised this over 60 years ago

There are a good few less professional teams in Spain, so there is room for Barca and Real to have B & C teams, there are too many clubs here to justify it, and a lot more that would want one. United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool minimum, then there are Villa, Blackburn, Middlesbrough etc... who historically have very good youth systems an would probably love the opportunity to do something similar. So you could, conceivably, be adding/taking over 10-15 clubs, all prevented from achieving promotion or playing in the cups, just makes it all far too complicated and is far from fair on the fans of the existing clubs.

Something does need to be done though. I think clubs are only obliged to keep young teams up to U18, or something like that, and the vast majority can't afford to keep a dedicated team of 18-21 year olds in order to form a competitive competition for them all to play in. Reserve football has gone to shit as clubs don't tend to risk players from the 1st team squad anymore, so the quality just isn't there and there is no competition as the players tend to just be going through the motions.

Originally Posted by thenorthwillriseagain

it's funny cause matt busby realised this over 60 years ago

The success of Barca should change that perception. A team filled with players in 5"6-5"10 region, low centre of gravity, great in tight areas with that balance on the turn, acceleration over the first few yards, carrying very little weight so able to run and run. Busquets is the only one out of place and he is played in a defensive role.

The likes of Khedira/Alonso/Carrick look very pedestrian playing against the mobility of Xavi and Co. Of course they have outstanding technique as well, but as football becomes more and more a non contact sport the perception of understood requirements will change.

Paul Scholes would have been well suited to their team, all the correct characteristics.

Saying this "works in Spain" is all very well but what that means is it works for Real Madrid and Barcelona and is a kick in the @#%&! for everyone else. Which is of course how Spanish football works.

Having said that, United will probably support it. Which is depressing.

Not being funny but United could do a lot worse than sending some of the Academy players to FCUM. Never happen under the current regime of course but still..................

Originally Posted by Ghetts

Not being funny but United could do a lot worse than sending some of the Academy players to FCUM. Never happen under the current regime of course but still..................

I'd love to see that happen tbh. FC are still at too low a level yet though, United's academy players would probably be too good and would only get injured on the shite pitches.

Although they're only going to be killed at the hands of United's medical staff anyway so what the hell.

I basically agree with Fuzzy, even if I might not put it so colourfully

As dunk says, something does need to be done - but this is not it.