Marcos Rojo ... Out for season

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Pre season of LVG's first season when he was sold wasn't it? Can't remember if it happened during the World Cup or if LVG had any direct input, was it already sorted?

Utd were committed to developing Smalling and Jones, still had Evans, manager wanted a left footed option. Unfortunate timing, in a more settled situation he probably gets a chance.

Think I remember playing in a pre season game that summer (Roma perhaps ) and didn't he play in the MK Dons game?

Didn't LvG prefer McCnair and Blackett?

Originally Posted by AK14

Think I remember playing in a pre season game that summer (Roma perhaps ) and didn't he play in the MK Dons game?

Didn't LvG prefer McCnair and Blackett?

You are correct, my memory is going, also came on as a sub in our second league game that season.

It was a bloated squad when LVG, arrived, instead of careful pruning, evisceration.

Originally Posted by AK14

Think I remember playing in a pre season game that summer (Roma perhaps ) and didn't he play in the MK Dons game?

Didn't LvG prefer McCnair and Blackett?

Thought you had a great future, tbh. Shame it went to your head

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Good player, but not yet convinced that he would be as good, let alone better than we have. Mistakes are rarely overlooked at Utd, if Blind, Smalling or Jones allowed Lukaku to score the goal he did against Keane last week the reaction would not be kind.

if he was still making the same mistakes he was making at the outset after as long as smalling and jones have been at united then damn right the reaction wouldn't be kind.

the difference between keane and in particular smalling, is that keane is a footballer - he's another pallister or hansen by comparison. it's bloody obvious really tibs and you know it.

whichever way you paint this, smalling and probably jones as well are simply not good enough to take this team to where it wants to go. the presence of smalling, fellaini and a rapidly declining rooney falling off a cliff down our spine is going to be one of the defining passages when the history of the post-fergie new beginning is written.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

if he was still making the same mistakes he was making at the outset after as long as smalling and jones have been at united then damn right the reaction wouldn't be kind.

the difference between keane and in particular smalling, is that keane is a footballer - he's another pallister or hansen by comparison. it's bloody obvious really tibs and you know it.

whichever way you paint this, smalling and probably jones as well are simply not good enough to take this team to where it wants to go. the presence of smalling, fellaini and a rapidly declining rooney falling off a cliff down our spine is going to be one of the defining passages when the history of the post-fergie new beginning is written.

Keane is only a year younger than Jones. No doubt he is a good footballer, well schooled at Utd, technically adept. Jones and Smalling will not be good enough to take Utd back to the top of the European game, but nothing i see in Keane suggests he will be either.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Keane is only a year younger than Jones. No doubt he is a good footballer, well schooled at Utd, technically adept. Jones and Smalling will not be good enough to take Utd back to the top of the European game, but nothing i see in Keane suggests he will be either.

Smalling was already here and playing regular football the last time we were anywhere near the top of European football, Keane isn't that young and does make exactly the sort of mistakes our centre halves get crucified for, people on here calling for Axel Tuanzebe to get starts ahead of Smalling is £#%&!ing insane. If Smalling had been marking Jagielka the other week when he scored that shit goal, Throb would have still been posting about it now, yet here's the forum crying about what a massive disaster Rojo's injury is for the season.

I keep saying it but our defending really isn't the issue. All centre halves make errors, people are kidding themselves that almost any centre half at a top club would be massively better than Smalling and Jones, it would not transform us into a top European side, in fact it will make very little difference.

Don't watch Burnley but from what I remember of Keane he was, like Mcnair and Blackett, simply not good enough. Mcnair I think got the biggest push because he had personality and would bring the ball out of defence, but all three looked underwhelming prospects.

Originally Posted by ScholesGingerSheen

Smalling was already here and playing regular football the last time we were anywhere near the top of European football, Keane isn't that young and does make exactly the sort of mistakes our centre halves get crucified for, people on here calling for Axel Tuanzebe to get starts ahead of Smalling is £#%&!ing insane. If Smalling had been marking Jagielka the other week when he scored that shit goal, Throb would have still been posting about it now, yet here's the forum crying about what a massive disaster Rojo's injury is for the season.

I keep saying it but our defending really isn't the issue. All centre halves make errors, people are kidding themselves that almost any centre half at a top club would be massively better than Smalling and Jones, it would not transform us into a top European side, in fact it will make very little difference.

in fairness, last time united were anywhere near the top of european football was 10/11 when we made the final, and it's true that smalling played in the semi-final 2nd leg (as did darren gibson, who scored. and anderson, who scored twice)

but that was back in his 1st season at united. at that time I for one was giving him every chance.

i don't see how the fact he has been here since then helps your point one bit. it completely supports mine, and we've gone backwards ever since. the following season he started both the disastrous, embarrassing home leg defeats in the uefa cup against ajax and bilbao. he had been shit in basel when we got knocked out of the CL group already by then.

he wasn't involved in the real madrid quarter-finals in fergie's last season.

in moyes' first season he put in possibly the most inept performance i've ever seen from any united player when we lost in athens. he was dropped for the return, missed the 1st leg draw v bayern, and then came back in for the 2nd leg - we lost 3-1.

last season we lost 4 uefa cup ties. he started all of them, including mytilland.

citing his european involvement proves the point - united won't take the step up we need until the centreback partnership is sorted out. bailly is a good start, but smalling is still 1st reserve and that's not going to be good enough.

Freggle first promoted Keane for a League Cup game against Chelsea. He was very young then and it showed.

I don't think he's been all that impressive for Burnleh, I mean he's fine for them but there's shitloads more scrutiny at United. Our problems aren't really in defence anyway, more in central midfield as ever.

I know it's daft but still hold out a tiny bit of hope for Joneseh, God bless him. He's still only 25 and despite always being injured they're little things not bones or ligaments that shorten careers. But again if he's a future it's probably at a smaller club, like Jonny £#%&!ing Evans who a handful of perverse reds also still pine for.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Don't watch Burnley but from what I remember of Keane he was, like Mcnair and Blackett, simply not good enough. Mcnair I think got the biggest push because he had personality and would bring the ball out of defence, but all three looked underwhelming prospects.

That's my impression also. Revisionism is a great thing.

Also don't watch Burnley and don't put much stock in the fact he has an England call up. Smalling is an England regular ffs

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Don't watch Burnley but from what I remember of Keane he was, like Mcnair and Blackett, simply not good enough. Mcnair I think got the biggest push because he had personality and would bring the ball out of defence, but all three looked underwhelming prospects.

As do most academy players thrown into cb at the highest level. Rio particularly made some horrendous £#%&! ups at West Ham. This is why the risk tolerance at most big clubs -ones that are expected to win every week- precludes promotion in defensive positions, and why players like Keane developing elsewhere is the almost inevitable last piece of their education, a piece we can't provide.

Originally Posted by utd99

As do most academy players thrown into cb at the highest level. Rio particularly made some horrendous £#%&! ups at West Ham. This is why the risk tolerance at most big clubs -ones that are expected to win every week- precludes promotion in defensive positions, and why players like Keane developing elsewhere is the almost inevitable last piece of their education, a piece we can't provide.

exactly this. bringing centre backs and strikers through is as tough as it seems to get at united. people arguing that keane isn't a step up from smalling miss the point. the point is that smalling isn't good enough, and at least keane might slot in with the lads we have and give himself the chance to blossom because he has the advantage of already being able to play football.

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

Thought you had a great future, tbh. Shame it went to your head

If only Van Gaal had the same faith in me

I blame him

Originally Posted by utd99

As do most academy players thrown into cb at the highest level. Rio particularly made some horrendous £#%&! ups at West Ham. This is why the risk tolerance at most big clubs -ones that are expected to win every week- precludes promotion in defensive positions, and why players like Keane developing elsewhere is the almost inevitable last piece of their education, a piece we can't provide.

Nah I appreciate that aspect. I've been impressed with plenty of inexperienced young centre-halves. Keane just didn't look the part.

We shall see if he ends up at the highest level. Good luck to him.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Freggle first promoted Keane for a League Cup game against Chelsea. He was very young then and it showed.

I don't think he's been all that impressive for Burnleh, I mean he's fine for them but there's shitloads more scrutiny at United. Our problems aren't really in defence anyway, more in central midfield as ever.

I know it's daft but still hold out a tiny bit of hope for Joneseh, God bless him. He's still only 25 and despite always being injured they're little things not bones or ligaments that shorten careers. But again if he's a future it's probably at a smaller club, like Jonny £#%&!ing Evans who a handful of perverse reds also still pine for.

I assume Burnley play quite defensively too? So playing in a defence by numbers mid-table side really is tough to take as an indicator that he's got something special. Would be nice to see him bounce back at a big club. Maybe even here.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Nah I appreciate that aspect. I've been impressed with plenty of inexperienced young centre-halves. Keane just didn't look the part.

We shall see if he ends up at the highest level. Good luck to him.



I assume Burnley play quite defensively too? So playing in a defence by numbers mid-table side really is tough to take as an indicator that he's got something special. Would be nice to see him bounce back at a big club. Maybe even here.

regardless of whether he makes it back to united or not, van gaal letting him go (and for just for £2m btw) was absolutely £#%&!ing mental, especially considering the options he left himself with.

Hard time to pick out an exceptional CB . I doubt Keane, but then look around the PL at the other options and no-one is jumping out. Johnny Evans might be the best CB outside the top 6, not even a joke.

Same problem Europe wide, though I do not watch as much football as years past.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

regardless of whether he makes it back to united or not, van gaal letting him go (and for just for £2m btw) was absolutely £#%&!ing mental, especially considering the options he left himself with.

He looked poor though. Can vividly remember thinking the lad hasn't got it.

Seriously doubt he'd have played that season.

I didn't see this quality on the ball being mentioned either.

Originally Posted by andyroo

Freggle first promoted Keane for a League Cup game against Chelsea. He was very young then and it showed.

I don't think he's been all that impressive for Burnleh, I mean he's fine for them but there's shitloads more scrutiny at United. Our problems aren't really in defence anyway, more in central midfield as ever.

I know it's daft but still hold out a tiny bit of hope for Joneseh, God bless him. He's still only 25 and despite always being injured they're little things not bones or ligaments that shorten careers. But again if he's a future it's probably at a smaller club, like Jonny £#%&!ing Evans who a handful of perverse reds also still pine for.

Some truth in that. Burnley are very much a compact team so lots of protection. And in spite of that Heaton still is up there with most saves by a PL keeper.

Interesting some Burnley fans in those call ins seem somewhat perplexed at the plaudits he has been getting. He's been good but for them it's a team effort and his partner Ben Mee (nope me neither ) has been as good but no one knows him.

Wasn't Ben Mee at City?

Originally Posted by Vetch

He's not out for the season.

nft.

And this is based on.......?