I reckon Wenger jacks it in at the end of the season.

If I'm not mistaken, at the start of the season he went on record saying if they didn't win a trophy this year "The experiment has been a failure."

Originally Posted by utd99

Have you seen him recently? He sits there wringing his hands for 90 minutes, has a bust up with opposition managers and refs at every final whistle, and he's looking more and more like nosferatu every match.

He has clearly lost the plot and now he's losing the support too. Let's face it, this will be 6 years without a trophy, and the trend at arsenal is not a good one. Fabregas is sorting himself yet another exit strategy and looks very disenchanted, Van Persie is injured half the year, Walcott has never matched his unrealistic expectations because he has a limited intelligence and Arshavin has completely gone to pot after a promising start. The defence is utter shit and they have no goalie. Only Nasri and Wilshere hold any promise for the future.

More telling however is how the once unshakeable support he enjoyed has eroded. The AST has said they will wait until the end of the season to deliver their verdict, but let's face it we know what it will be. Basically it's not working.

The tone at the Emirates has changed, and I think many of them are tired of hearing from Wenger about the teams age and character when they can see what we see, that they have no £#%&!ing character, and at some point a 'project' has to reap rewards, when is that, 6 years, 10 years, 20? When the fans group start demanding answers and given that it is clearly affecting his health I think he will knock it on the head.

No particular info, just a feeling.

i think you're probably right. all this blather about not spending money on transfers disguises the fact that (a) arsenal spend plenty of money on players but tend to spend it very badly and (b) their wage bill is one of the highest in the country. compare wenger's ludicrous serial failure to identify and buy a decent centre half (£9m for kościelny ) to fergie's ability to pick out smalling (£10m + add-ons or something?). wenger's record in the transfer market is shocking.

Excellent points raised and bang on. Summat not right with Wenger, the 'le prof' thing has always been overplayed but he looks awful at the moment - think he's become slightly obsessed with doing things on his own terms and now facing the reality that it simply isn't working. Arsenal are a cracking team to watch but his methods simply aren't working out given the lack of trophies. He's run out of excuses.

As said earlier in the thread, can you imagine the press reaction had United imploded in a similar fashion?

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

There was Gooner on Gooner violence at the Emirates recently after a shit result, that doesnt happen without fundamental splits... Could happen.

Originally Posted by Ashley's Grime

Throwing their Latte's at each other were they?

There was claret everywhere. Actual claret. It was most unseemly.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i think you're probably right. all this blather about not spending money on transfers disguises the fact that (a) arsenal spend plenty of money on players but tend to spend it very badly and (b) their wage bill is one of the highest in the country. compare wenger's ludicrous serial failure to identify and buy a decent centre half (£9m for kościelny ) to fergie's ability to pick out smalling (£10m + add-ons or something?). wenger's record in the transfer market is shocking.

Smalling was 7 million rising to 10 with add ons. Arsenal have not spent money in years on signings, they may pay high wages but if you look at net spend its only about 10% of ours and an embarrassing fraction of what City have forked out.

They look to have finally found a keeper in that lad whose name I can't say let alone spell but they have no leader at the back, no steel in midfield and only one striker you would describe as class and he's injured so often he makes Saha look reliable. They have some alright defenders, Djourou is good, Vermailen is good but neither of them dominate and the same can be said for them all over the pitch. Song is big but soft, Van Persie is hardly nails and whilst Wiltshere might be useful against taxi drivers he's not exactly a hard man.

For me they miss Adebayor, at least with him they had a big fella who would actually use his size to some kind of effect and go and get goals rather than [pass the ball to death on the edge of the 18 yard box waiting for someone else to take responsibility.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i think you're probably right. all this blather about not spending money on transfers disguises the fact that (a) arsenal spend plenty of money on players but tend to spend it very badly and (b) their wage bill is one of the highest in the country. compare wenger's ludicrous serial failure to identify and buy a decent centre half (£9m for kościelny ) to fergie's ability to pick out smalling (£10m + add-ons or something?). wenger's record in the transfer market is shocking.

Tbf, Wenger wanted Smalling too.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i think you're probably right. all this blather about not spending money on transfers disguises the fact that (a) arsenal spend plenty of money on players but tend to spend it very badly and (b) their wage bill is one of the highest in the country. compare wenger's ludicrous serial failure to identify and buy a decent centre half (£9m for kościelny ) to fergie's ability to pick out smalling (£10m + add-ons or something?). wenger's record in the transfer market is shocking.

In fairness, Vermaelen looked like a good buy until he got injured, but I agree in principle. I remember him complaining about having no money just after spending about £12m on Reyes, which was going to then rise to £17m or something.

Wenger is clearly fire-fighting tbf to him after a nightmare run of results at the worst possible time. That £#%&!-up at wembley was a big big moment in their season. Maybe the psychological failings of his side are ultimately down to him and his spiteful whining demeanour, but at the same time they got drawn away at United in the cup and against barcelona in the CL 2nd rd. that's a tough draw for a team trying to make a silverware breakthrough.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

If SAF came out with half of the stuff "Le Professeur" has uttered recently, there would be banner "HE'S CRACKING UP" headlines in the redtops, wouldn't there??

There have been anyway. Or did you somehow miss all that nonsense after the Chelsea and Liverpool league games?

Originally Posted by borsuk

i think you're probably right. all this blather about not spending money on transfers disguises the fact that (a) arsenal spend plenty of money on players but tend to spend it very badly and (b) their wage bill is one of the highest in the country. compare wenger's ludicrous serial failure to identify and buy a decent centre half (£9m for kościelny ) to fergie's ability to pick out smalling (£10m + add-ons or something?). wenger's record in the transfer market is shocking.

Whilst I heartily agree with Wenger being a £#%&!ing helmet, & lots of his buys not working out (regardless of wages) they are still outspent by about 3/4's of the league in the last 6 seasons since the move to the Emirates. I suspect very, very few managers, if any, would have been able to maintain a consistent progress into the knock out stages of the CL & top 4 on that budget. The Arsenal model was to get to the Emirates & then reap the reward in the long run. I suspect it's now seriously starting to take it's toll on Wenger with the lack of silverware - however the reason he's not been sacked is purely down to the fact they are now only 2nd to United in revenue off the back of the stadium move coupled with the vast amounts generated from their CL runs & thus extortionate season ticket prices & merchandise etc - once they clear their debt they will be £#%&!ing laughing.

I can imagine Wenger possibly moving to a director of football role & maybe the chap at Porto, Villas Boas, taking over... imagine if he won stuff in his first season - Wenger would puke.

Very good piece by Conn on how much has been taken out of the club.

Hill-Wood last week said that as directors, "protecting the ethos and spirit" of the club was "a key responsibility", so they were selling to Kroenke because they are confident he will be a "safe custodian". Secure that they were doing their duty, Hill-Wood banked £4.7m for his shares, Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith £116m and Danny Fiszman, who was terminally ill by then and has since died, £117m for his family.

None of that money is going back into Arsenal, whether to buy and fund the wages of some senior experienced players Fábregas argues they desperately need – that would be contrary to the "self-sustaining model" – or to keep ticket prices the right side of extortionate. It is all for the custodians to keep.

Arsenal's self-sustaining model now apparently requires prices to rise again, 6.5%, at the stadium that already has the most expensive tickets in the Premier League – and therefore the world. Arsenal Supporters' Trust, managing creditably to campaign for the club's soul while diplomatically seeking an influence, is challenging what these price rises are to be spent on, while other fans are simply, angrily, objecting to forking out more.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...-kroenke-board

Wenger picks fantastic footballing forwards and midfielders, no doubt, but he is £#%&!ing useless at identifying CB's and GK's. He was fortunate when he arrived at Arsenal that George Graham's legacy of the old 'Boring, Boring Arsenal' was still in place and gave him an excellent base to use when putting in his choice of forwards. Since the last one of the golden oldies retired (Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Keown, Bould & Adams) which was Keown, I think, I don't think they have won the title (I might be wrong). He got fortunate with Ashley Cole coming through, the no-brainer that was the signing of Sol Campbell and Lehman had his moments, but beyond that they have not had a top quality defender since. Even Gallas, who was always excellent at Chelsea, was largely £#%&! for Arsenal.

It's a major failing of Wenger's in that he should have accepted this weak spot and maybe got someone in on the backroom staff to help him, someone to identify defenders and coach them, he never seems to have done it

Originally Posted by dunk

Wenger picks fantastic footballing forwards and midfielders, no doubt, but he is £#%&!ing useless at identifying CB's and GK's. He was fortunate when he arrived at Arsenal that George Graham's legacy of the old 'Boring, Boring Arsenal' was still in place and gave him an excellent base to use when putting in his choice of forwards. Since the last one of the golden oldies retired (Seaman, Dixon, Winterburn, Keown, Bould & Adams) which was Keown, I think, I don't think they have won the title (I might be wrong). He got fortunate with Ashley Cole coming through, the no-brainer that was the signing of Sol Campbell and Lehman had his moments, but beyond that they have not had a top quality defender since. Even Gallas, who was always excellent at Chelsea, was largely £#%&! for Arsenal.

It's a major failing of Wenger's in that he should have accepted this weak spot and maybe got someone in on the backroom staff to help him, someone to identify defenders and coach them, he never seems to have done it

Wenger sometimes gives the impression that he has something against defending, as if it shouldn't be allowed at all. Scholes once said Arsenal's players 'think you're not allowed to tackle them'. If teams express their manager's mentality, then it's no wonder Arsenal are so physically soft, and think hitting a pass over more than 5 yards is a crime.

Originally Posted by Zorg

Wenger sometimes gives the impression that he has something against defending, as if it shouldn't be allowed at all. Scholes once said Arsenal's players 'think you're not allowed to tackle them'. If teams express their manager's mentality, then it's no wonder Arsenal are so physically soft, and think hitting a pass over more than 5 yards is a crime.

Then that is why they fail.

Look at Fergie's list of defenders, just in the time that Wenger has been there...

Johnson
Berg
Stam
May
Ferdinand
Blanc
Brown
O'Shea
Neville
Silvestre
Evra
The Twins
Small dog
Evans
Vidic

That's just off the top of my head, even the worst of those that we have misgivings about would all piss getting in Arsenal's teams since 2004.

And you could honestly say that PIG is better than all their goalkeepers, probably has been since Lehman was in his pomp.

Originally Posted by Baron_van_Marlon

Whilst I heartily agree with Wenger being a £#%&!ing helmet, & lots of his buys not working out (regardless of wages) they are still outspent by about 3/4's of the league in the last 6 seasons since the move to the Emirates. I suspect very, very few managers, if any, would have been able to maintain a consistent progress into the knock out stages of the CL & top 4 on that budget. The Arsenal model was to get to the Emirates & then reap the reward in the long run. I suspect it's now seriously starting to take it's toll on Wenger with the lack of silverware - however the reason he's not been sacked is purely down to the fact they are now only 2nd to United in revenue off the back of the stadium move coupled with the vast amounts generated from their CL runs & thus extortionate season ticket prices & merchandise etc - once they clear their debt they will be £#%&!ing laughing.

I can imagine Wenger possibly moving to a director of football role & maybe the chap at Porto, Villas Boas, taking over... imagine if he won stuff in his first season - Wenger would puke.

you have to include wages in any transfer. headline transfer fees don't tell the story, arsenal's wage bill is one of the biggest in the league - it was 2nd pre-abramovic.

Originally Posted by borsuk

you have to include wages in any transfer. headline transfer fees don't tell the story, arsenal's wage bill is one of the biggest in the league - it was 2nd pre-abramovic.

Originally Posted by silv

that's what i remember, could be wrong. i think it's happened before.


edit

Originally Posted by borsuk

that's what i remember, could be wrong. i think it's happened before.

Maybe, I dunno. They just seem so tight with wages and always seem to have been that I can't imagine them being second. But im nearly always wrong mate!

Originally Posted by silv

Maybe, I dunno. They just seem so tight with wages and always seem to have been that I can't imagine them being second. But im nearly always wrong mate!

They were paying Henry, Pires and Sol Campbell ridiculous money, to name but 3.

Originally Posted by borsuk

you have to include wages in any transfer. headline transfer fees don't tell the story, arsenal's wage bill is one of the biggest in the league - it was 2nd pre-abramovic.

But when you put it against turnover, it's fine as far as I can tell. Outlays in transfer fees negate a lot of it compared to how something like 19 other clubs have spent more since 2006.

I'm adamant in however many years it takes Arsenal to lose their debt, they'll be very dangerous as they've willfully abused Wenger's ability to work on a budget not comparable to any other side in Europe for the last 5 seasons & achieve the relative success they have (financially of course, not trophies).

AndersRed has - as usual - some interesting figures regarding their takeover & the wage inflation that is happening there at the moment.