Balotelli > Rooney

Originally Posted by dunk

I say break because I'm convinced he isn't fit. They seem to be able to get him fit enough to play then he manages 2 or 3 games before aggravating that left ankle again. I reckon it probably needs either 2 or 3 months rest or operating on to get it right again.

You dont need fitness to look bothered, and quiet frankly he looks like he can't be arsed at the moment.

I've said this all season, but Hernandez should be starting in front of him, whatever happened to playing for your position? Rooney hasn't been good enough ALL season and Hernandez gets put on the bench, give the lad a chance.

Originally Posted by That Boy Ronaldo!

You dont need fitness to look bothered, and quiet frankly he looks like he can't be arsed at the moment.

I've said this all season, but Hernandez should be starting in front of him, whatever happened to playing for your position? Rooney hasn't been good enough ALL season and Hernandez gets put on the bench, give the lad a chance.

True, but at the same time it's difficult to give your all if you are injured and/or concerned about a potential weakness that you are trying not aggravate.

Plus, he hasn't played more than 4 or 5 consecutive games all season has he? It's no wonder he looks constantly off the pace. It doesn't really explain his quite horrific 1st touch. Even the goal he did score from open play was actually just a shite knockdown to Berbatov that went in

When he's on form his passing/link up is so good people have - on occasion - talked about him one day playing in midfield: we'll ignore the fact that the words Paul and Scholes have been mentioned in the same breath...

When he went missing this season the talk was of Berbatov missing him, the same thing was true for the entire team when we still had Ronaldo playing for us.

But when Ronaldo left, Rooney just picked up where he'd left off and replaced Ronnie's goals. That's not a bad achievement is it?

I don't like him, he'll never be as consistent as Ronaldo, but he's very important to United. Overrated by some, underrated by others.

Originally Posted by reem

When he's on form his passing/link up is so good people have - on occasion - talked about him one day playing in midfield:

Those people are, on the whole, clueless £#%&!ing idiots. hth

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Those people are, on the whole, clueless £#%&!ing idiots. hth

Yes, probably the same who wanted Alan Smith in midfield(and there were some) based on his aggression and work-rate. He is a front man, capable of playing different roles but at his best right up the top using his pace, power and determination to unsettle defences.

Elements of his game are world class but his first touch and short passing are not, and his touch as often said can be embarrassing at times for a player of his reputation.

However, as much as he is off form and I think he is a pretty unpleasant man he is a very good player, at times world class when on form and confident, and the impact his presence has on the team can not be downplayed.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Those people are, on the whole, clueless £#%&!ing idiots. hth

Ouch, you gonna take that ginners

Originally Posted by The Watcher

Those people are, on the whole, clueless £#%&!ing idiots. hth

I really couldn't comment. But something has led them to the opinion, and it wasn't shite passing.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Yes, probably the same who wanted Alan Smith in midfield(and there were some) based on his aggression and work-rate. He is a front man, capable of playing different roles but at his best right up the top using his pace, power and determination to unsettle defences.

Elements of his game are world class but his first touch and short passing are not, and his touch as often said can be embarrassing at times for a player of his reputation.

However, as much as he is off form and I think he is a pretty unpleasant man he is a very good player, at times world class when on form and confident, and the impact his presence has on the team can not be downplayed.

For once I disagree with you, Tiberian.

Being at pains to point out fundamental weaknesses to his Alan Smith-esque game and putting his influence down to 'presence' is a cop out.

If he's not scoring goals, tackling, passing or receiving a simple pass without #@&%!ing it up: what the £#%&! is he doing right?

Originally Posted by reem

I really couldn't comment. But something has led them to the opinion, and it wasn't shite passing.



For once I disagree with you, Tiberian.

Being at pains to point out fundamental weaknesses to his Alan Smith-esque game and putting his influence down to 'presence' is a cop out.

If he's not scoring goals, tackling, passing or receiving a simple pass without #@&%!ing it up: what the £#%&! is he doing right?

This season, nothing.

Originally Posted by dunk

This season, nothing.

Not much, no.

rooney's touch suffers terribly when he's off form or injured; it's rarely if ever a problem when he's playing well. that might seem like a statement of the bleeding obvious but what i mean is that when he's on form his touch is good, not just compensated for by other aspects of his game.

there is something of an issue with united's attack in general anyway. berbatov brings many things but searing pace is not one of them, nor is a willingness to give and go. with berbatov we have more of a get-control-look-feed approach. it can be great, he can be a genius but he can also slow things down, which is the reason we rarely play him in games where we're looking to counter - arsenal, for example. park is the opposite, always looking to move the ball on, very fast and ideal for counter-attacking play, much more limited against teams with 8 men behind the ball. with rooney out of sorts or out of the team and both park and valencia unavailable we lack some drive and penetration, especially if nani is struggling.

Originally Posted by reem

I really couldn't comment. But something has led them to the opinion, and it wasn't shite passing.



For once I disagree with you, Tiberian.

Being at pains to point out fundamental weaknesses to his Alan Smith-esque game and putting his influence down to 'presence' is a cop out.

If he's not scoring goals, tackling, passing or receiving a simple pass without #@&%!ing it up: what the £#%&! is he doing right?

Rooney liberates Berbatov more than any other striker than we have on the books has shown an ability to replicate.

His reputation demands the respect and attention of opposition defenders. His form has been awful but he is capable of playing at a very high level and when a manager looks at a Utd team sheet with Rooney in it, he has to plan for the possibility of Rooney on top form. This has all sorts of knock on effects on team shape and the space that other players will receive.

You also have what he showed on Sunday, Tactical flexibility and a selfless attitude when it comes to doing a job for the team, when Rafael is sent off he goes to the right wing and it was very noticeable how quiet Bale was from that moment on, barely had a touch.

The problem is that Utd do not really have great options in this area. 451 is only really effective with Rooney as the main front man, and Berbatov needs a partner. With that you either believe that Chico is ready or you go with Owen, and to me as much as Rooney is off form and deserves to be dropped it looks unlikely to happen for any period.

It's not just Rooney's touch that bothers me but his ball striking technique. His body shape is all over the place these days where as this was one of his main assets. The amount of shots he chokes by trying to rip the back out of the ball is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by dunk

In a nutshell.

And the performances that have been better than awful have been greatly exagerated, West Brom being a case in point, he was quite good at best, yet was heralded as superb in some quarters, he was decent against Blackburn, I thought he was poor against Arsenal, albeit in difficult circumstances.

Needs a long break, or a huge kick up the arse.

Sums up his whole career at United, albeit last season, when he actually played with the consistent quality that everyone was going on about. I thought he'd stepped it up to be honest, and he's been hampered by injuries to be fair to him.
I never took to him. I never take to these people who are instantly heralded as United legends after a few games. Veron being one I was uneasy with.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Elements of his game are world class but his first touch and short passing are not, and his touch as often said can be embarrassing at times for a player of his reputation.

However, as much as he is off form and I think he is a pretty unpleasant man he is a very good player, at times world class when on form and confident, and the impact his presence has on the team can not be downplayed.

Again, sums him up. A cynic in me would say this year is just an example of a regression towards the mean after a heady season last year.
He always has these peaks and troughs though. Throughout his United career he has gone 4,5 games, and sometimes longer, in rich scoring form and then had 4,5 games, and sometimes longer, scratching around for a goal.

He's a very good player when on form and will come good. I just hope this last 6 months has shown him for what he is - a good player, not a world class player.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Rooney liberates Berbatov more than any other striker than we have on the books has shown an ability to replicate.

His reputation demands the respect and attention of opposition defenders. His form has been awful but he is capable of playing at a very high level and when a manager looks at a Utd team sheet with Rooney in it, he has to plan for the possibility of Rooney on top form. This has all sorts of knock on effects on team shape and the space that other players will receive.

You also have what he showed on Sunday, Tactical flexibility and a selfless attitude when it comes to doing a job for the team, when Rafael is sent off he goes to the right wing and it was very noticeable how quiet Bale was from that moment on, barely had a touch.

The problem is that Utd do not really have great options in this area. 451 is only really effective with Rooney as the main front man, and Berbatov needs a partner. With that you either believe that Chico is ready or you go with Owen, and to me as much as Rooney is off form and deserves to be dropped it looks unlikely to happen for any period.

Was wondering how that happened. Says a lot imo. (edit: and yours obviously).

To be fair, Ferguson made him play wide when he didn't want to, as he did with OGS and others (unless my memory deceives me). And that's paying dividends.

Can we do it with Pea? Can anyone be Rooney with enough coaching?

Originally Posted by Argentina

Sums up his whole career at United, albeit last season, when he actually played with the consistent quality that everyone was going on about. I thought he'd stepped it up to be honest, and he's been hampered by injuries to be fair to him.
I never took to him. I never take to these people who are instantly heralded as United legends after a few games. Veron being one I was uneasy with.



Again, sums him up. A cynic in me would say this year is just an example of a regression towards the mean after a heady season last year.
He always has these peaks and troughs though. Throughout his United career he has gone 4,5 games, and sometimes longer, in rich scoring form and then had 4,5 games, and sometimes longer, scratching around for a goal.

He's a very good player when on form and will come good. I just hope this last 6 months has shown him for what he is - a good player, not a world class player.

He's just a lazy @#%&!. If he would only put the hours in, he could be the next fat Ronaldo.

Originally Posted by borsuk

i still reckon he'll be £#%&!ed off in the summer. got a pay bump to play the rest of the season, united get a fee, his agents gets a cut, rooney gets what he wants, united bring in somebody else (on a free or cheap), keeps the debt monster happy. tbhowen more or less.


edit

http://www.utdforum.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=80

nothing's changed since then imo

corrected for you.




anyway, one thing that is very poor from our perspective is the passing and movement around the other team's penalty box. it appears that if we can't sling the ball in from wide areas that we run out ideas.

there's no midfielders breaking beyond the defenders, no quick 1-2s or give and go's. very pedestrian.

Originally Posted by reem

Can we do it with Pea? Can anyone be Rooney with enough coaching?

Very different players. Hernandez is very much an out and out striker, play on the last man, reliant on pace and movement, always looking to threaten in behind, valuable trait but his work with his back to goal is only at a functional level for a team like Utd at this moment. He looks to have a good attitude though, can be worked on.

Fergie does like for the forwards to be able to adapt to different roles so I would imagine he will seen in wide roles on occasion, think he has played from the left for Mexico and started a league cup tie on the right.

Rooney is an all rounder, does a lot of things well which allow him to be adaptable and his physical qualities aid him, just look at Berbatov and it is not viable for him to do play in a wide role.

Originally Posted by Sparky***

anyway, one thing that is very poor from our perspective is the passing and movement around the other team's penalty box. it appears that if we can't sling the ball in from wide areas that we run out ideas.

there's no midfielders breaking beyond the defenders, no quick 1-2s or give and go's. very pedestrian.

This has been the problem for about one thousand years. We dont have the personnel to do it as none of our midfield players are technically good enough to do it. Scholes used to be unbelievably good at the once touch stuff in tight areas however he is now deployed much deeper.

Fletcher for all his attributes has never had this in his locker and Carrick, well £#%&! me, as soon as it gets tight he turns back out and starts again. Not necessarily a bad thing but clearly detracts from any attacking/creative impetus that we may have.

I do think that Pea could help us in this regard as he plays on the shoulder of the last man, appears rapid over the first 5 yards and shows intelligent movement. All it's going to take is for him to feature more for the others to get themselves on his wavelength I think.

Oh and us to buy a midfielder with excellent technical ability and/or the ability to go past the front and create space

Originally Posted by PaulParkersPubes

Oh and us to buy a midfielder with excellent technical ability and/or the ability to go past the front and create space

Do we have to buy one?

Originally Posted by andyroo

Do we have to buy one?

Well not if someone will give us one