Does anyone expect anything different from us in Europe next year?

Originally Posted by Tiberian

25 games unbeaten in Europe until the final does not suggest that a major overhaul is needed. This last 3 years, 2 finals and a semi is the best European run in our history.

Originally Posted by thrills_pills_bellyaches

he'll defo change it next year, when we went out to Milan because the squad wasn't big enough he remedied that instantly and we won it the following year

That's the pointe. He won't do big things to the squad, so really, he's forced into making tactical changes or going for one big signing that would change us completely. INiesta maybe?

Originally Posted by thrills_pills_bellyaches

he'll defo change it next year, when we went out to Milan because the squad wasn't big enough he remedied that instantly and we won it the following year

& after the Madrid mauling of a few years ago he decided we needed more players that could run with the ball.

We need a balance. Good players with the ability to carry it when they need to, and pass when they don't... more to the point for me, we need players who make the right decision when faced with the opportunity to shoot they should shoot, unless someone else is in a better position etc etc. It's simple stuff, but we have players that try too much, or not enough, and the balance is gone. It's only a tiny complaint, but the last 2% or whatever of reaching a pinnacle is often the most difficult to achieve.

The starting XI in Rome was chosen by all & sundry because we all know what Fergie would do when the time came. & that's the real shame of it, he (for me) didn't pick the best XI we had available to beat them, he picked the XI that somehow he thought would do the best 'jobs'. That's not what a United side should be about surely.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

at some point you all have to accept that Barcelona changed their game to play us, and that we had no answer; we did not adjust to what was happening on the pitch. yes we didn't get in their faces, that much is obvious. but it was because they dominated the game tactically.

the doubts I posted on here about starting with Park proved spot on. but the reality is that virtually everyone picked our starting XI, and the substitutions were all obvious as well. now throw in the switching of Park and Rooney, followed by the shifting of Ronaldo to the wide, and it becomes pretty clear exactly why Guardiola said before the game that he knew how United would play, and why he said after that adjusting his tactics to stop us playing was the key to winning. we were utterly predictable.

it's not rocket science. we £#%&!ed the game up tactically. had the passing been sharper or even just the inspiration been higher we might've got away with it. let's face it, we were very close to taking the lead a couple of times. but even if the line up was wrong, the real problem was that we didn't adjust to what they were doing.

I don't think Barca changed their game too much. Everyone knew what side they would play in the same way most knew ours and, if Fergie had watched the Madrid and Chelsea matches as closely as he claimed, nothing about their approach or deployment of players would have been a surprise. I think the game had little to do with tactics, tbh, and much to do with one side constantly making basic errors both with and without the ball, while the other remained largely calm and composed. Obviously different players could have given us a more attacking edge and that could have led to a different result, but I doubt it would have mattered given that we were barely able to string any progressive passing movements together and were so static and nervy in our defensive play.

I don't think Barcelona changed their game too much either.

I think they changed it just enough, and we didn't adjust to it.

Originally Posted by borsuk

the intensity in that game from barca was instructive. they were high-energy everywhere. for all their undoubted class and individual ability, they played that game with the attitude of a non-league team giving it a go with every ounce of strength: they harried, chased and fought, they were hungry and they were intensely up for the fight.

The press the ball and aggressively - we don't and haven't done for ages. We give the opposition the ball and defend 20-25 yards from goal.

When was the last time we really went at a side all over the pitch? Arsenal at home in the Cup 07/08? Roma in the 7-1? Other then that, I can't really think of any.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

The press the ball and aggressively - we don't and haven't done for ages. We give the opposition the ball and defend 20-25 yards from goal.

They almost appeared shocked at Barca's pressing game, as if they did not expect a team of that talent to work so hard without the ball. Been a key part of their game this season, anyone watching Barca would realize that they tire teams out when they have the ball and quickly press the opposition to take advantage of that fatigue, it is how they pen teams in.

Pressed carrick superbly and because the movement around him was not good enough he was forced into going long instead of trying a risky short pass which could give an easy counter opportunity. Giggs was deployed too high up the pitch when eh and Anderson needed to be closer to Carrick to help retain the ball.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

They almost appeared shocked at Barca's pressing game, as if they did not expect a team of that talent to work so hard without the ball. Been a key part of their game this season, anyone watching Barca would realize that they tire teams out when they have the ball and quickly press the opposition to take advantage of that fatigue, it is how they pen teams in.

I know. It was very similar to what happened against Liverpool, who used similar tactics. The players literally had no idea how to deal with it. They also did a great job of forcing our centre backs no time at all on the ball. How many times did our defenders give the ball away in our half with rushed passes?

Originally Posted by The Watcher

I know. It was very similar to what happened against Liverpool, who used similar tactics. The players literally had no idea how to deal with it. They also did a great job of forcing our centre backs no time at all on the ball. How many times did our defenders give the ball away in our half with rushed passes?

or rolled it back to vds - and every single time he got the ball a barca player chased in and made him hit it long.

Originally Posted by The Watcher

I know. It was very similar to what happened against Liverpool, who used similar tactics. The players literally had no idea how to deal with it. They also did a great job of forcing our centre backs no time at all on the ball. How many times did our defenders give the ball away in our half with rushed passes?

the way Liverpool kept possession at times in that game, even at 0-0 and 0-1 is interesting as well. they also appear to have developed a change of tempo. they showed worrying signs of this in Madrid as well.

yes they punted the ball, yes they scabbed goals. but even so...

Originally Posted by The Watcher

I know. It was very similar to what happened against Liverpool, who used similar tactics. The players literally had no idea how to deal with it. They also did a great job of forcing our centre backs no time at all on the ball. How many times did our defenders give the ball away in our half with rushed passes?

It was telling how composed Pique was in the same situations, we pressed him and he continually found quality passes into his midfielders. A lot of that is down to having options but also courage, and technique of course. I do not really expect Vidic to pass the ball that well, especially if forced to his left he will makes mistakes but Rio was too eager to either go to VDS or pass the problem to his full back. Anderson did not make himself available often enough and as I said Giggs was too far forward. Our out Ball was Rooney on the left but once they sussed that their pressing dominated .

Utd actually started very well in this regard, pressed high up the pitch, giving Valdes risky short passing options and invariably were winning the ball when he hit it long, gave Utd momentum for the first 10 mins which vanished as soon as they scored

Originally Posted by borsuk

or rolled it back to vds - and every single time he got the ball a barca player chased in and made him hit it long.

Defending without the ball. Cruyff used to bang on about it all the time when he was their coach.

Fair play to Guardiola, he's really turned them around. Just two years, an almost identical collection of players was being torn apart at the Camp Nou by Craig £#%&!ing Bellamy

their defending and pressing the player on the ball was what impressed me most about them. It was brilliant. If there was anything we could take from this debacle then I pray it will be that.

none of this 'thud and blunder' premier league "get into em" chopping people down - just energetic closing down of all the space and not giving the man on the ball any options.

Our pressing would have looked just as good if we had scored first, as it did at OT last year (Tevez, Park etc).