Our approach to Europe this season...

IMO we should play to enjoy it, that's how I feel anyway, I want the league so Europe doesn't bother me to much, so we should play our style and play our football and enjoy it because the league is almost won and that's the big one. There is no point on playing the slow 4-5-1 and making it hard for ourselves, we'll actually do better playing our way than if we play the boring 4-5-1 one way. The system we play domestically isn't 4-4-2 anyway it has variations, but in Europe it's a strict 4-5-1 and we suffer.

Fergie, tell them to go out and enjoy it please.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

IMO we should play to enjoy it, that's how I feel anyway, I want the league so Europe doesn't bother me to much, so we should play our style and play our football and enjoy it because the league is almost won and that's the big one. There is no point on playing the slow 4-5-1 and making it hard for ourselves, we'll actually do better playing our way than if we play the boring 4-5-1 one way. The system we play domestically isn't 4-4-2 anyway it has variations, but in Europe it's a strict 4-5-1 and we suffer.

Fergie, tell them to go out and enjoy it please.

It's near enough the same; same players, same variations. Ronaldo and Rooney float around Giggs is the best way I've come up with of trying to describe it in a single sentence so far. There are differences between European games and Premiership games aside from mere formations.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

It's near enough the same; same players, same variations. Ronaldo and Rooney float around Giggs is the best way I've come up with of trying to describe it in a single sentence so far. There are differences between European games and Premiership games aside from mere formations.

It isn't, because an attacker is sacrificed to put somebody like O' Shea in there.

There's a difference between inter-changing free flowing football and men behind the ball when needed, and a strict 4-5-1 with a slow shite display. You surely can't deny how bad we are in Europe compared to domestically?

Benfica at home was a good example. Awful until we put Rooney in his right position, before you know it we're attacking with pace and causing them problems and win the game.

I don't think we play with that 'Free' movement that we do domestically.
We certainly don't look to get round the back & put crosses in like we always do in the League.

We have been playing a kind of 4-3-3 of late, but we've still had plenty of width to our game.
I agree with the original post. Let's just go for it & see how it goes.

Great comment about us in this months SKY magazine from Gianluca Vialli..he says if football teams were boxers Manchester United would be the entertainer..come out throwing punches from the start & see who's left standing at the end! (or words to that effect)

I'm so anxious, nervous, stressed out about the Premiership Title race that I'm almost looking forward to enjoying the game on Wednesday..don't feel nervous at all.

I'd love to see us just cut loose in Europe & play how we do in the League.

The only time we've seen us really go at a team in Europe was against Benfica when we went 1 down. Don't think we'll really open up untill were getting beat and are in danger of going out.

Originally Posted by MJ Ramone

I don't think we play with that 'Free' movement that we do domestically.
We certainly don't look to get round the back & put crosses in like we always do in the League.

We have been playing a kind of 4-3-3 of late, but we've still had plenty of width to our game.
I agree with the original post. Let's just go for it & see how it goes.

Great comment about us in this months SKY magazine from Gianluca Vialli..he says if football teams were boxers Manchester United would be the entertainer..come out throwing punches from the start & see who's left standing at the end! (or words to that effect)

I'm so anxious, nervous, stressed out about the Premiership Title race that I'm almost looking forward to enjoying the game on Wednesday..don't feel nervous at all.

I'd love to see us just cut loose in Europe & play how we do in the League.

Brilliant post. And you said in better words than I did about Wednesday, with all the anxiety etc of the title race, Wednesday is a welcome relief and the players should enjoy it. I just think sacrificing an attacker for O' Shea or anyone else to do that role spoils our play. We get the numbers back with our domestic system and it's not a strict 4-4-2, it's inter-changeable and we're lethal. Fergie needs to realise that it's not a strict 4-4-2 domestically and it can be seen as a European formation. I would bet on us to score more goals than any team when we attack, so why not just play our game, if Roma score 3, I'd bet we'd score 4-5 if we spent the game playing our game.

We've been playing 4-2-3-1 lately. It's worked too. The support to Rooney has been excellent at times.

If we play that system on Wednesday, no complaints. The 4-4-2 system has its merits just not in Europe IMO. Well, not anymore IMO. Any half decent continental side will deal with it and cause us more than enough problems. Roma are a bit better than half decent too.

The problem with 4-2-3-1 system is when we have all of our strikers fit and Rooney is pushed out wide. I'd rather see him as the one playing through the middle tbh. Anyhoo we seem to be doing quite well with it atm so leaving Saha back in England doesn't worry me too much.

Formations aren't really the issue though unfortunately, it's intent. Of which I suspect we'll leave all our attacking intent back home with Louis and Darren.

Just so long as it returns in time for Saturday.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

We've been playing 4-2-3-1 lately. It's worked too. The support to Rooney has been excellent at times.

If we play that system on Wednesday, no complaints. The 4-4-2 system has its merits just not in Europe IMO. Well, not anymore IMO. Any half decent continental side will deal with it and cause us more than enough problems. Roma are a bit better than half decent too.

The problem with 4-2-3-1 system is when we have all of our strikers fit and Rooney is pushed out wide. I'd rather see him as the one playing through the middle tbh. Anyhoo we seem to be doing quite well with it atm so leaving Saha back in England doesn't worry me too much.

Formations aren't really the issue though unfortunately, it's intent. Of which I suspect we'll leave all our attacking intent back home with Louis and Darren.

Just so long as it returns in time for Saturday.

Whaley I agree, it hasn't been a strict 4-4-2 domestically. But in Europe as I have said, an attacker is sacrificed so we can play a holding midfielder, O Shea does nothing there anyway, he isn't exactly an enforcer and he doesn't do a lot of work. If we played the 4-2-3-1 in Europe we'd be a brilliant team, just like domestically, however we know it will be a boring slow performance from us and a 1-0 defeat or something similar with the defensive formation.

Erm We haven't really played 4-4-2 for a long while.

I can't remember us sacrificing an attacker for O'Shea either in a while. We simply push Rooney out wide. Or rather he becomes one of the attacking trio behind Saha. Or Henrik. Which is a shame. Well, it wouldn't be if he was the one playing through the middle.

As it stands the front 6 appear to be set up like this atm:

Scholes
Carrick

Park
Giggs
Ronaldo

Rooney

And for the past few games it's worked well enough. I just hope that front 6 start the game on Wednesday. But as I mentioned earlier it's not really the formation that's the issue, it's the intent. We'll go at teams in the league but we won't in Europe. We're too scared of the opposition. I've no idea why.

Exactly, them six probably won't start. I've seen it more as Giggs behind Rooney but there you go. My point is when O' Shea is put it it becomes three midfielders, not Giggs having a free role like he has recently. Nobody can deny that when O' Shea is put in as a holding midfielder we're playing with an extra midfielder, surely?

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

Exactly, them six probably won't start. I've seen it more as Giggs behind Rooney but there you go. My point is when O' Shea is put it it becomes three midfielders, not Giggs having a free role like he has recently. Nobody can deny that when O' Shea is put in as a holding midfielder we're playing with an extra midfielder, surely?

There's no way O'Shea will be in midfield. I'd put money on it.

For example on Wednesday if Saha is still out I'd expect;


O' Shea
Ronaldo Carrick Scholes Giggs





Rooney.


Obviously when Saha is back it leaves Fergie a problem/option. Or if Saha is back with this system Rooney plays out wide, Giggs won't be put in central midfield with Carrick and Scholes, and even if he was he would sit back far more, domestically the system is far more inter-changeable, hence why Rooney plays all over, as does Ronaldo Park and Giggs.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

There's no way O'Shea will be in midfield. I'd put money on it.

With the injuries he won't be, otherwise I'd expect it.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

With the injuries he won't be, otherwise I'd expect it.

I wouldn't even if we didn't have the injuries. It'd be the same as above but Park out and Saha in. However, Giggs would tuck inside and Rooney would be pushed out wide.

so much as attitude, as whaley said (though i've been banging that particular drum for quite a while). as soon as you start putting names down in a pattern you lose the flexibility that we need to play at our best: park and ronnie switching wings, rio carrying the ball forward, rooney pulling off to the side to make space and giggs coming through, scholes joining the attack...

the problem, i think, is that fergie/carlos wants the team to keep it tight in europe because they don't think we can pull a goal back so easily; in the league i think they're pretty confident that we can, for example, go one down and still score four in the second half ;~)

'keeping it tight', unfortunately, tends to negate our attacking threat because the players hold their positions and we lose the flexibility that characterises our best performances. if we could find the confidence to really go at teams, home and away, i'm convinced we'd do far better. and what a sight it would be, eh. unfortunately, i think the defeats against dortmund and real a few seasons ago still haunt the management to a certain extent.

Saha being left behind could be a blessing in disguise as Fergie won't be able to peg Rooney back so deep out wide.

Originally Posted by borsuk

so much as attitude, as whaley said (though i've been banging that particular drum for quite a while). as soon as you start putting names down in a pattern you lose the flexibility that we need to play at our best: park and ronnie switching wings, rio carrying the ball forward, rooney pulling off to the side to make space and giggs coming through, scholes joining the attack...

the problem, i think, is that fergie/carlos wants the team to keep it tight in europe because they don't think we can pull a goal back so easily; in the league i think they're pretty confident that we can, for example, go one down and still score four in the second half ;~)

'keeping it tight', unfortunately, tends to negate our attacking threat because the players hold their positions and we lose the flexibility that characterises our best performances. if we could find the confidence to really go at teams, home and away, i'm convinced we'd do far better. and what a sight it would be, eh. unfortunately, i think the defeats against dortmund and real a few seasons ago still haunt the management to a certain extent.

Nail on head.

Originally Posted by MUFC One Love

It isn't, because an attacker is sacrificed to put somebody like O' Shea in there.

There's a difference between inter-changing free flowing football and men behind the ball when needed, and a strict 4-5-1 with a slow shite display. You surely can't deny how bad we are in Europe compared to domestically?

Benfica at home was a good example. Awful until we put Rooney in his right position, before you know it we're attacking with pace and causing them problems and win the game.

What you're ignoring is that the best opposition in Europe play continental style football. It's all very well saying yeah let's play our own football and dominate them. But it has just the slight flaw in it as a plan - the opposition are trying to play their game and dominate us.

If we play the 4-4-2* we've been playing of late we could very well scare the shit out of them and win the match. Or we could just as easily hardly get a kick for the first hour and be out of the tie before we're ever in it.

For what it's worth, I'm expecting us to try and hit them with an early goal, scored by Ronaldo running through the middle and Rooney pulling out to the right to make the space. Giggs will split the defence with a neat pass as he strides on the diagonal across the centre circle. You heard it here first.

As for the Benfica game at home, all the players I've heard talk about it have said that they didn't know whether to stick or twist. We didn't change formations at all. We just conceded a goal and it made us get our shit together.


*fluid and inter-changing as usual, obviously ;-)

Originally Posted by Carrick

Saha being left behind could be a blessing in disguise as Fergie won't be able to peg Rooney back so deep out wide.

saha is going to be integral to us winning anything this season.

our attitude away in europe sucks. there is no £#%&!ing hope of seeing the real united on wednesday. even if we go 1-0 down.

o'shea will be in defence, incidentally. park is guaranteed a start, but we should play smith up front instead.

Originally Posted by jem

our attitude away in europe sucks

Yes, it does....& has done for roughly 5 years.
Like watching paint dry.
It'll be 0-0 or 1-0 to Roma.

I've got more than 'half an eye' on that Portsmouth game if I'm being totally honest.