ferdinand ..opinion on him

I wouldn't blame the goal on Vidic either, as you say there's a question mark over Heinze's positioning but ultimately that cross should not have been allowed. And it was a £#%&!ing brilliant cross too.

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Well he did brilliantly to outmuscle Henry at one stage with some first rate defending and got his head to most balls throughout the afternoon.

I repeat, Henry was Vidic's man.

no he wasnt .ferdinand was marking henry all match .cos rio cant handle someone with the strengh of adebayour

Originally Posted by Whalefish

I wouldn't blame the goal on Vidic either, as you say there's a question mark over Heinze's positioning but ultimately that cross should not have been allowed. And it was a £#%&!ing brilliant cross too.

I'm not particularly blaming anyone, we defend as a team. But it's just that everyone (including Andy Gray) automatically blames Rio when if you look at the way the defence was setting up, Vidic was more guilty of failing to mark than Rio. As the defence was coming out before Arsenal won the ball, Vidic was close to Henry and Rio was covering Adebayor.

If Rio had been tight on Henry and the ball had gone to Adebayor, he would have taken the blame for that, too.

I wouldn't blame Rio for the second, I wasn't too keen on his involvement in the equaliser though.

Anyhoo, I don't see much point over analysing it. We lost, we're still 6 points clear with one less game to play. A tough away game to boot. We were hardly shit either. However we need to win our next 4 league matches - not drop a single point - but atm I cannot see us winning at WHL.

We haven't kept a clean sheet since Christmas (I think) and that needs sorting asap. Resting some of the back four was a big mistake IMO.

rio was superb throughout the match, as were vidic and evra. unfortunately, their mistakes cost us goals.

rio did outmuscle henry and had henry pleading with the ref for something (not the only gooner to do that). generally he played him pretty well and henry was peripheral - he did have one header in the first half when rio "let him go", but it would be a bit harsh to blame him on a deep cross with henry pulling off the back of him. however, on the equaliser, henry was way offside and rio actually ran back ten yards to get goal side of him. madness. he'd have been better off staying where he was and pleading with the ref to give the blatant foul on scholes. :0) van der sar's attempt to get across his goal and cover the near post was laughable. he was practically in the goal before the ball. horrible, horrible goalkeeping.

rio was at fault for the second goal. he was marking henry and when henry stepped forward to attack the ball, rio stood and watched. rio should have been on the end of that ball or at least putting henry off. vidic was floundering under the flight of the ball, but perhaps couldn't have been expected to get it given where he was. evra got caught out by a £#%&!ing obvious one-two and let the cross come in. the problem with having him and heinze on together was a lack of responsibility.

the thing is... you can't really expect a perfect game. you hope that the odd mistake is covered by other people. but when your defence is under a lot of pressure, coincindental lapses are not really unexpected. if we'd put arsenal under a bit more pressure ourselves, we probably wouldn't have lost.

Agree with most of that, but maintain that Vidic should have been marking Henry. There's a pretty good replay of the goal from the side view that shows the seconds before the one-two is worked. Initally, Henry is Vidic's man and Adebayor is being watched by Ferdinand. As play develops, Vidic seems to leave Henry to concentrate on the cross, and Ferdinand is ultimately left with two men. He doesn't react well, but I don't think Vidic did his job properly to be honest. Having said that, it was one hell of a whipped cross that really picked Henry out perfectly and left him only needing to direct the great power on the ball.

Thought Neville could have done better at tracking van persie's run for the equaliser, too. Maybe a bit pedantic, but I think in those situations he should be seeing that ball out.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

we need to win our next 4 league matches - not drop a single point - but atm I cannot see us winning at WHL.

you're not wrong about need 12. but spurs aren't that good. we were "ten minutes from the title" against arsenal. I think we can take spurs.

we need to, because the run liverpool-bolton-blackburn-portsmouth-chelsea will make or break us. I think we can afford to draw at anfield and lose at stamford bridge and still win the league by 5 points. but we need to beat the teams that are clearly not as good as us in the other games - I think we can afford maybe two draws in games other than the liverpool and chelsea games. no more.

the way chelsea are playing at the moment, they should be more concerned about liverpool and arsenal than us. they still have to play spurs, us, bolton, arsenal.... even their "easy" games will be hard if they don't pick it up. if we win our next four, they may not be able to recover psychologically enough to improve.

Am I the only person who thought that Evra was very poor defensively yesterday? Constantly out of position and every attack they had came down our right. Arsenal were looking to exploit that. Good going forward though.

Originally Posted by TheNew

Am I the only person who thought that Evra was very poor defensively yesterday? Constantly out of position and every attack they had came down our right. Arsenal were looking to exploit that. Good going forward though.

He was fine defensively, for the most part. He ends up being overworked though. Yesterday for example both Wayne and Ronnie were hardly busting a gut defensively. I get extremely worried when I see Ronaldo on the left because neither Evra or Heinze remind him he needs to get back from time to time. Gary does to his credit.

Originally Posted by Whalefish

He was fine defensively, for the most part. He ends up being overworked though. Yesterday for example both Wayne and Ronnie were hardly busting a gut defensively. I get extremely worried when I see Ronaldo on the left because neither Evra or Heinze remind him he needs to get back from time to time. Gary does to his credit.

absolutely. i think ronaldo needs neville behind him - he lacked discipline yesterday. in fact, i thought ronaldo was very disappointing yesterday - too many blind alleys, allowed himself to get pushed out very wide and failed to play the obvious pass back inside a few times because he wanted to take the full back on. too much diving as well.

generally, i don't understand the sense of playing giggs on the right. swapping wings once in a while is fine, but he should be on the left most of the time.

when we seemed to have giggs, ronaldo and rooney playing right wing. fergie's an idiot.

Originally Posted by TheNew

Am I the only person who thought that Evra was very poor defensively yesterday? Constantly out of position and every attack they had came down our right. Arsenal were looking to exploit that. Good going forward though.

If he'd been kept at left back we would probably have finished 1-1. Don't change your defenders unless you have to. Very basic stuff.

Originally Posted by borsuk

absolutely. i think ronaldo needs neville behind him - he lacked discipline yesterday. in fact, i thought ronaldo was very disappointing yesterday - too many blind alleys, allowed himself to get pushed out very wide and failed to play the obvious pass back inside a few times because he wanted to take the full back on. too much diving as well.

generally, i don't understand the sense of playing giggs on the right. swapping wings once in a while is fine, but he should be on the left most of the time.

Ronaldo is our most effective dribbler. Neville was looking after Henry when he drifted left. And Clichy is Arsnal's fastest defender.

Therefore, Ronaldo on the left, Evra over-lapping. If Evra's early crossing had been better we'd ripped them open at least twice and could have been in front long before we were.

Wenger pointed out that United's tactics led to Arsenal's problems in the first half. But, as so often, we didn't take full advantage while we were on top.

People who blame the tactics for the defeat are, to put it politely, just wrong.


edit: just to add, it was also Eboue's first game back from injury. Attacking him makes total sense.

idiot.

the bumbling defender had to be carried by vidic.

£#%&! the @#%&! for some money in summer and replace him with evans.

Originally Posted by sharath

idiot.

the bumbling defender had to be carried by vidic.

£#%&! the @#%&! for some money in summer and replace him with evans.

good point. maybe the year after though. how old is Rio now?

Ferdinand is our best defender, why it is such a struggle for people to admit that i do not know.

He was good yesterday, may have been at fault for the winner, but it was a cracking cross and Vidic may have been marking Henry.

Thought VDS could have done better with both goals, Very slow getting across for the Van persie goal and again moved slowly for the winner. Maybe harsh.

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

good point. maybe the year after though. how old is Rio now?

He'll be 29 this year.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

Ferdinand is our best defender, why it is such a struggle for people to admit that i do not know.

He was good yesterday, may have been at fault for the winner, but it was a cracking cross and Vidic may have been marking Henry.

Thought VDS could have done better with both goals, Very slow getting across for the Van persie goal and again moved slowly for the winner. Maybe harsh.

I agree! The other post I agreed with maybe taking the money for Rio and bringing Evans in, not that Rio is crap cus he clearly isn't. Can Evans play right-back?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

I agree! The other post I agreed with maybe taking the money for Rio and bringing Evans in, not that Rio is crap cus he clearly isn't. Can Evans play right-back?

He played left back for Northern Ireland a few times, so can probably play right as well considering that is his stronger side. Not convinced by him yet, looks physically weak, not that fast either. Good composure and positioning but was sent off a few times for Antwerp.

Why has no-one mentioned Vidic booting the ball out for a corner under no pressure and generally his passing being slack all game. he is the new hero.

Originally Posted by Tiberian

He played left back for Northern Ireland a few times, so can probably play right as well considering that is his stronger side. Not convinced by him yet, looks physically weak, not that fast either. Good composure and positioning but was sent off a few times for Antwerp.

Why has no-one mentioned Vidic booting the ball out for a corner under no pressure and generally his passing being slack all game. he is the new hero.

He's done that a few times. Opposition have begun to try much harder to rattle him since Drogba got stuck into him.

Anyway yeah, Evans can have a season or two in Rio and G Nev's shadows then.