Half this board would blame VDS for both of those goals

Originally Posted by Grimson

Top-drawer keepers not yet mentioned:

Bonetti

The Mexico Fumbler? %@#$&!s to that one.

i don't think he's weak on free kicks particularly

seriously???

so you dont think his positioning is always wrong or could be better for freekicks...?
do you not think he trusts his wall abit to much leaving himself with no room to make a save if the wall lets him down(which our wall always does...?
do you not notice how many shots from distance always go in with him in goal?

Originally Posted by dodgyron

The Mexico Fumbler? %@#$&!s to that one.

Pressed into service at the very last minute, and conceded one soft goal (the first one). England were still 2-1 up with 10 minutes to go and contrived to lose, so Bonetti was made the scapegoat (there's always one: Bonetti, Beckham, Seaman, Ronaldo, etc.).

An excellent goalkeeper for over a decade otherwise.

Originally Posted by violater™

seriously???

so you dont think his positioning is always wrong or could be better for freekicks...?
do you not think he trusts his wall abit to much leaving himself with no room to make a save if the wall lets him down(which our wall always does...?
do you not notice shots from distance always go in with him in goal?

I know we've gone over this a million times, but hear me out.

Proper positioning for free kicks is not a matter of opinion. There's one and only one proper position every time, for every free kick, which almost every goalkeeper (VDS included) takes: the far post side, on a direct line which runs from the ball, to the edge of the far post side of the wall, to the keeper himself. You can vary by a foot or two either side, but if you aren't close to this imaginary line, you aren't in position.

It's not just about trusting the wall, either - if you move closer to the centre of goal, you're behind the wall and won't have clear sight of the ball, which obviously won't do.

The reason the keeper takes the far post, and the wall the near, is that it is far harder for a player to get a ball up and over the wall with pace, and then back down under the crossbar, the nearer he is to goal. If the wall, for instance, covered the far post every time, it would be easier to go up and over it, and then get it back under the bar. The shooter is always going to challenge the wall, so you have to make him do the hardest thing possible.

And if the shooter wants to take the 'easy' option and avoid having to go over the wall, then he's shooting at a target further away (the far post) that the keeper is already closer to.

When you add up the number of actual goals United have conceded from direct free kicks the last two seasons, and compare that to the number of free kicks they gave away in shooting positions, you see that only a fraction of these end up in the net - usually because the wall and Edwin does their job.

Sometimes the wall simply breaks down, like Ronaldinho's free kick the other day against Bremen. Or sometimes the player just beats the wall, like Leighton Baines and Nakamura (twice) did. No matter what the wall and keeper do, a well-struck shot always has a chance to beat them. There is no infallable way to defend a free kick.

Jem and others mentioned putting a player on the near post. This can sometimes work, but it also plays everyone onside, which means opposition players milling in the 6-yard box, obstructing the keeper's view, deflecting shots in (ala Teddy vs Bayern, which never should have happened had Bayern cleared their lines quicker). Once again, looking at how few free kicks actually score, it isn't worth the risk. Also, shots like Nakamura's second wouldn't get headed out anyway, unless you've Peter Crouch on the line.

For an example of how it goes wrong when a goalkeeper is truly in the wrong place for a free kick, just think back to Schmeichel at the Nou Camp (beaten to his far post, which he should have been covering). Or watch Milan. Dida is always cheating to his near post, and they lost to AEK Athens just the other week because of it:

[YOUTUBE]XZaxRpRL0bo[/YOUTUBE]

I'll be honest, I've not read this thread.

But, what I will say is this: VDS has made some shocking errors.City's 'effort' was dreadful.He looked like he had an anchor tied tightly to his legs.

I rate him though.He's quality.Error prone, but good.

Originally Posted by Grimson

I know we've gone over this a million times, but hear me out.

Proper positioning for free kicks is not a matter of opinion. There's one and only one proper position every time, for every free kick, which almost every goalkeeper (VDS included) takes: the far post side, on a direct line which runs from the ball, to the edge of the far post side of the wall, to the keeper himself. You can vary by a foot or two either side, but if you aren't close to this imaginary line, you aren't in position.

It's not just about trusting the wall, either - if you move closer to the centre of goal, you're behind the wall and won't have clear sight of the ball, which obviously won't do.

The reason the keeper takes the far post, and the wall the near, is that it is far harder for a player to get a ball up and over the wall with pace, and then back down under the crossbar, the nearer he is to goal. If the wall, for instance, covered the far post every time, it would be easier to go up and over it, and then get it back under the bar. The shooter is always going to challenge the wall, so you have to make him do the hardest thing possible.

And if the shooter wants to take the 'easy' option and avoid having to go over the wall, then he's shooting at a target further away (the far post) that the keeper is already closer to.

When you add up the number of actual goals United have conceded from direct free kicks the last two seasons, and compare that to the number of free kicks they gave away in shooting positions, you see that only a fraction of these end up in the net - usually because the wall and Edwin does their job.

Sometimes the wall simply breaks down, like Ronaldinho's free kick the other day against Bremen. Or sometimes the player just beats the wall, like Leighton Baines and Nakamura (twice) did. No matter what the wall and keeper do, a well-struck shot always has a chance to beat them. There is no infallable way to defend a free kick.

Jem and others mentioned putting a player on the near post. This can sometimes work, but it also plays everyone onside, which means opposition players milling in the 6-yard box, obstructing the keeper's view, deflecting shots in (ala Teddy vs Bayern, which never should have happened had Bayern cleared their lines quicker). Once again, looking at how few free kicks actually score, it isn't worth the risk. Also, shots like Nakamura's second wouldn't get headed out anyway, unless you've Peter Crouch on the line.

For an example of how it goes wrong when a goalkeeper is truly in the wrong place for a free kick, just think back to Schmeichel at the Nou Camp (beaten to his far post, which he should have been covering). Or watch Milan. Dida is always cheating to his near post, and they lost to AEK Athens just the other week because of it:

[YOUTUBE]XZaxRpRL0bo[/YOUTUBE]

cheers for that...

were you a keeper by any chance?

Originally Posted by Tumescent Throb

Phil Parkes yeah forgot about him. Wasn't he a top penalty saver along with Paul Cooper, he of the 3 saved in one game

Did he get a Unipart gig as well as Jennings ?

ffs hark have you got a death wish?!!?!

Originally Posted by believe

ffs hark have you got a death wish?!!?!

All relevant


Our man in green/yellow/black


The goaly has just returned

Originally Posted by Grimson

Top-drawer keepers not yet mentioned:

Clemence, Jean-Marie Pfaff, Zoff, van Breukelen, Renat Dassayev, Buffon, Kahn, Zenga, Bonetti, Schumacher, Casillas, Coupet...

Southall is the best goalkeeper in history in my opinion.

No mention of Felix He won a world cup

Originally Posted by M-13

No mention of Felix He won a world cup

That team didnt need a keeper or a cat mate.

Originally Posted by HarkNowHear

That team didnt need a keeper or a cat mate.

Very true, he was a bit dodgy to say the least !

Originally Posted by M-13

Very true, he was a bit dodgy to say the least !

I reckon I could have got the gig.



































I was 8 at the time