Realistically, what do we have to do to be as good as Real Madrid?

Originally Posted by AK14

It's a fact though...

Changing managers every two years doesn't help much. also all three managers have had different ideas on how they want us to play so we've basically been hitting reset every time we change manager.

One of them had no £#%&!ing clue about how they wanted us to play, tbh. Or anything else come to that

Originally Posted by Luffy

Looking forward to the next 3 years of Jem banging his agenda against Mourinho on a daily basis.

Really don't get how you can advocate criticising mourinho given the squad he was left with. I've never seen a more spineless Utd team. His priority has blatantly been to add charisma, hunger, muscle and fight into the squad.

And to call our players hard workers and order following robots is kinda ridiculous. If anything our team is too focused on intuition right now.

Mhki's first instinct is to try an ambitious pass or run towards goal, Martial and Rashford immediately try to beat a defender and run into his legs, Pogba is trying to do everything, Lingard plays it safe - thats the players personalities shining through, not orders from above.

The next step has to be to nurture and channel that intuition in the right way and help the players use each others strengths and more organised, deliberate attacks can contribute to that.

my question about the manager is always the same: is he make the best of the players available? that takes into account "the squad he was left with". I can forgive a lack of trophies if we try to play entertaining, purposeful, effective, organised football. it certainly wasn't me that called them order-following robots. we have too many undisciplined players not playing as a team, as you point out. and that, my friend, is down to the manager. his football is a bit shit and relies on a couple of good players doing their thing. when you don't have a ronaldo, you'd better have a way of playing. one that doesn't just consist of defending in numbers, hoping for a break, playing desperate long balls and, if all else fails, cheating. it's as bad as pressing and possessing, just different. I'm not pursuing an agenda against mourinho. I have never liked his approach to football and I was hoping (against hope) that he would change at united. but he's just making united into a mourinho team. £#%&! him and £#%&! anyone who thinks that's acceptable. pursuing an agenda? £#%&! off.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

So who's this magical manager who isn't mourinho?

As it's Dunk, City's manager of course

Originally Posted by browser

As it's Dunk, City's manager of course

#@&%!.

Always said Pep is hugely overrated tbh.

There are plenty of young managers out there not resorting to long ball football.

Originally Posted by dunk

#@&%!

And just repeating this notion of Mourinho playing long ball doesn't make it any more true. It only serves to highlight your childish grudge. Watch a different sport maybe?

Originally Posted by browser

And just repeating this notion of Mourinho playing long ball doesn't make it any more true. It only serves to highlight your childish grudge. Watch a different sport maybe?

It doesn't need me to mention it to make it true pal. As you cant see it, I'd suggest it is in fact you that requires a different sport to watch.

Originally Posted by dunk

I'd suggest it is in fact you that requires a different sport to watch.

That was more a comment on your seeming complete lack of enjoyment in watching United. It's pretty tiresome and serves no purpose other than to make you seem a miserable @#%&! with a grudge. I'm sure Mourinho isn't many peoples dream manager. But after two tenures of failure he's exactly what we require. Your fantasy young manager isn't. Maybe try and enjoy it for what it is?

What if what it is isn't that enjoyable?

Not saying it isn't. Just hypothetically.

Originally Posted by andyroo

What if what it is isn't that enjoyable?

Not saying it isn't. Just hypothetically.

I'd say that if you can't get any enjoyment from seeing us win two trophies, academy players getting regular game time, the best young midfielder in the world playing for us etc etc then you're probably a hopeless case.

Originally Posted by browser

I'd say that if you can't get any enjoyment from seeing us win two trophies, academy players getting regular game time, the best young midfielder in the world playing for us etc etc then you're probably a hopeless case.

on loan to palace. hth.

Originally Posted by browser

I'd say that if you can't get any enjoyment from seeing us win two trophies, academy players getting regular game time, the best young midfielder in the world playing for us etc etc then you're probably a hopeless case.

True.

I've enjoyed some of it but last night was horrible. Not bothered by the result, but a slightly more encouraging performance would've been welcome.

When does the best young midfielder in the world start playing for us? Can't wait.

Even the Jose-sceptics would have "enjoyed" last season a lot more if we had managed to turn some of those home draws into wins. Maybe this season we will?

Originally Posted by browser

That was more a comment on your seeming complete lack of enjoyment in watching United. It's pretty tiresome and serves no purpose other than to make you seem a miserable @#%&! with a grudge. I'm sure Mourinho isn't many peoples dream manager. But after two tenures of failure he's exactly what we require. Your fantasy young manager isn't. Maybe try and enjoy it for what it is?

Watching United is a £#%&!ing chore, and was for all but about 4 games last season. It's shit. It doesn't have to be, the manager makes it so. I'm sorry if I refuse to just accept and happy clap through the shit.

Opposition aside, last night the team was utterly clueless as to what to do with the ball when they had it until 'plan b(a)' was brought on. There's only one person instructing them..

Take your condescending posts and kindly point them elsewhere. Just because you are grateful to be watching a Mourinho team doesn't mean the rest of us have to be.

To repeat what I said just above, would it really have made NO difference if we had won a few more games last season? Results do matter, whatever some may like to claim.

Originally Posted by red in cumbria

To repeat what I said just above, would it really have made NO difference if we had won a few more games last season? Results do matter, whatever some may like to claim.

Not really. Early doors maybe, and it may have changed the managers mentality, but the second half of the season was £#%&!ing dire.

Originally Posted by andyroo

True.

I've enjoyed some of it but last night was horrible. Not bothered by the result, but a slightly more encouraging performance would've been welcome.

When does the best young midfielder in the world start playing for us? Can't wait.

we got outplayed for a couple of 10 or 15 minute spells by the european champions, and even then much of what they did wasn't hurting us ...

overall we had as many efforts at goal, we had as many shots on target and we cut them wide open just as often as they cut us open. pogba had a free header, blew a classic 3 man breakaway and had a tame shot when he could have teed mhiki up, lukaku had two virtually open goals and another chance with a header, rashford was clean through to equalise but fluffed it; in the opening exchanges we looked a good team, passing through real with neat combinations - none of this stuff was from long ball or even just from hitting fellaini from deep ...

sure, real hit the woodwork a couple of times and might easily have had 4 or 5 of their own. but in the end 2-1 to them was about right and even then one of theirs could have been chalked off for offside ...

there's clearly a difference between the sides, but it's nowhere near as big as people are making out.

Sign half their £#%&!ing team.

They have top quality players who have been together for a good few years. They bought the best available, often breaking the world record in the process, and it took them about ten years (sometimes being the third best team in a two team league) to build that team to become what they are now. Half of our starting eleven -the best players in the squad- and the manager have been here one season or less.

If we don't like the term 'transition', then look away because we're in one. Admittedly it may have been more protracted than it needed to be because of horrendous appointments and signings but that's where we are. No team could have lost Fergie, Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and had their two main strikers fall off a cliff and not broken stride. No one.

Madrid are much better than us because they have much better players across the park. Simple.

Originally Posted by utd99

They have top quality players who have been together for a good few years. They bought the best available, often breaking the world record in the process, and it took them about ten years (sometimes being the third best team in a two team league) to build that team to become what they are now. Half of our starting eleven -the best players in the squad- and the manager have been here one season or less.

If we don't like the term 'transition', then look away because we're in one. Admittedly it may have been more protracted than it needed to be because of horrendous appointments and signings but that's where we are. No team could have lost Fergie, Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and had their two main strikers fall off a cliff and not broken stride. No one.

Madrid are much better than us because they have much better players across the park. Simple.

disagree and i think that contradicts the rest of your post anyway.

they are better than us because they have quickly found a balance under zidane amongst a group who have been together for a few seasons.

zidane was prepared to bring a less gifted player (casemiro) into the side despite the critics to try and achieve this balance. he has also been largely spared the problem of having to choose between ronaldo and bale in order to get isco in the side by their respective injuries. his influence has also had a calming effect on ramos and their GK has been inspired - both since being seriously linked with united, funnily enough.

real are the best team in europe and have been for at least 2 years, despite the hype about barcelona's front 3. but they'd still take at least 2 of our players in a heartbeat and I dare say a few more besides. we are a couple of players short in quality, but quite a way short in terms of the balance of our team.

fwiw i'd take marcelo off them in a heartbeat at LB and he can't defend for shit half the time. their RB not all that either. have a look at their bench the other night and asensio aside (and ronaldo obvs.) they're not standouts on the world stage, right now anyway, so it's not necessarily the quality of the individuals that makes the real difference. maybe the inspiration and motivation of working for zidane as compared to mourinho the winning machine is the main factor?

Those front sixes from the other day. Pretty depressing tbh. Good job Mata and Martial didn't start.

Casemiro - 40m
Kroos - 25m
Modric - 30m
Icso - 28m
Benzema - 32m
Bale - 85m

Total - 240m

Herrera - 30m
Matic - 45m
Pogba - 90m
Lingard - 0m
Lukaku - 75m
Mkhitaryan - 30m

Total - 270m