At one stage we had midfielders Robbo, Ince and Keane in the squad

It isn't even necessarily combative players that are required in the middle.

What is required is players who actually take a risk with their play, who aren't happy to constantly play the safe pass, every single time. We are far too negative with 2 holding midfielders in the vast majority of games. These players often create absolutely nothing, they never make a forward run, they never drive forward with the ball, they rarely get into the box. Couple this with our poor wide players and it is no wonder we create next to £#%&! all.

For all his faults, even Anderson would actually run forwards with the ball.

Fellaini doesn't play as a genuine holder, though. He doesn't know how to.

He makes runs forward all the time. Then proceeds to foul people

Originally Posted by S/Side.Red

Fellaini doesn't play as a genuine holder, though. He doesn't know how to.
He makes runs forward all the time. Then proceeds to foul people

Hes obviously told to do that as hes our main danger in the box, he regulary gets caught between the 2. Its not his fault he is what he is and always has been. Its not as if his form has dropped he isnt Xavi.

it should (but apparently doesn't) go without saying that robson would walk into any team in any era and make it better. he wasn't just "a bit combative", he was the complete footballer. better than maradona. players like hughes, mcgrath and robson would still dominate today.

however, it is also true (and a bit more practically relevant) that we have as good a midfield as any currently if our thinking-inside-a-tiny-£#%&!ing-box manager would just £#%&!ing play them.

no team would look good with an ungifted fellaini half-passing to a lackadaisical mata and letting some keen second-rater get to the ball first. it is a shite system poluted by dross players.

carrick and schweini might have their best days behind them, but they are not knackered and useless - they are intelligent players. but you cannot play a 1 or 2 man midfield and expect them to perform. we are overloaded in every game with unproductive and clueless attacking players. carrick, schneidi, schweini and herrera can be creative and destructive enough individually and together. mata offers £#%&! all other than a very narrow range of attacking play. fellaini is £#%&!ing hopeless in any position and makes everyone look shite.

van gaal's teams are unbalanced, playing an unattractive system in an ineffective way - it is joyless to watch and they clearly don't believe in it either.

we have got £#%&!y players. clearly, we miss shaw. but people don't even appreciate someone like valencia who is quick and £#%&!ing solid when it comes to fighting for the ball. he's just not a winger. or a fullback. still.....

against a packed defence, van gaal's team is no less effective than most of fergie's. what you need is talented players who can beat players with incisive passes (with intelligent running getting on the end of them), dribblin skillz or simple bludgeoning - someone like hughes could do all of those. passing in a big arc around the penalty area and "lateral attacking" does £#%&! all.

so - play more of our good players in midfield and either develop memphis and martial or buy a couple of proper world class forwards like aguero and ronaldo.

them smalling wouldn't have to bring the ball out of defence. borthers's attitude to tackling is just fine, incidentally.

Originally Posted by Ranier Wolfcastle

The first full season after Keane left was the start of one of the most impressive periods in United's history where we were, perhaps for the first time, dominant domestically & in europe for more than one season.

A "lightweight" midfield of Scholes & Carrick reclaimed the title from a Chelsea team containing a prime Essien. We went to the european semi finals & were hindered by injuries.

However we obviously still lacked the destroyer/presser in midfield, so added Hargreaves whilst Fletcher continued to grow into that role.

The next season we won both competitions.

The season after that we won the league for the third time in a row & returned to the European final, where we suffered from both of our combative midfielders being unavailable.

Even the greatest United sides containing Keane at his best never got close to that consistency. So while I agree that having that type of player is crucial, I think Keane's United sides underachieved hugely in Europe, never dominated consistently & were surpassed by the more sophisticated & versatile side that succeeded them.

Out of interest, how many Keane/Robson style players would you say the great Barca sides of the last 7 years had?

So nothing to do with Fergie hiring a continental assistant and subsequent change in coaching and tactics around the time Keane was over the hill and subsequently left. Amongst numerous other things, including premier league clubs being so dominant around 2005-2011 period that Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Liverpool were all doing well in the European cup. I'd suggest putting a peak Keane or Robson in the 2008-2011 team, and we'd have given barca a much closer run for their money.

Originally Posted by Coracao

It isn't even necessarily combative players that are required in the middle.

Indeed. To even suggest being combative was all Keane or Robson brought to the team would be doing them a huge disservice. It's not even 10% of what they offered. Leadership, drive, energy, inspiration when up against it. everything the modern day United have lacked for a good 5 years. It was ridiculous the difference Robson made to the 80s team when he played compared to how they were without him. Enough of a difference where if he was at his peak today, this current team would probably be top of the league and playing much better football. A peak Robson playing box to box in midfield, and a peak Cantona in place of Rooney behind martial, and we'd be pissing this league. The performances of the players around them would be unrecognisable to the ones we're seeing now, and we'd no doubt be calling van gaal a genius.

Originally Posted by Jammy Dodger

So nothing to do with Fergie hiring a continental assistant and subsequent change in coaching and tactics around the time Keane was over the hill and subsequently left. Amongst numerous other things, including premier league clubs being so dominant around 2005-2011 period that Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Liverpool were all doing well in the European cup. I'd suggest putting a peak Keane or Robson in the 2008-2011 team, and we'd have given barca a much closer run for their money.

A continental coach who Keane apparently didn't approve of?

Anyway, I'm not disputing the merits of Keane, I was disputing saying that United haven't had a great team since Keane's prime. Plus United never really dominated on the continent with a prime midfield of Beckham, Keane, Giggs & Scholes.

Keane has said that as a kid growing up he based his game on Robbo.

Trying to think, who would have been a comparable player to Robbo in the Sixties and Seventies? You watch games from that era and the play/players are as slow as £#%&!. Bobby Charlton looked the business as an attacking midfielder but could he get up and down the pitch for 90 mins and tackle like Keane and Robbo?

Did Robbo basically invent the role of all-action midfielder/lynchpin/captain marvel? Who were Robbo's influences and heroes?

Originally Posted by Turin

Keane has said that as a kid growing up he based his game on Robbo.

Trying to think, who would have been a comparable player to Robbo in the Sixties and Seventies? You watch games from that era and the play/players are as slow as £#%&!. Bobby Charlton looked the business as an attacking midfielder but could he get up and down the pitch for 90 mins and tackle like Keane and Robbo?

Did Robbo basically invent the role of all-action midfielder/lynchpin/captain marvel? Who were Robbo's influences and heroes?

Arthur Guinness and Thomas Carling.

Originally Posted by Withers

Arthur Guinness and Thomas Carling.

Originally Posted by Turin

Keane has said that as a kid growing up he based his game on Robbo.

Trying to think, who would have been a comparable player to Robbo in the Sixties and Seventies? You watch games from that era and the play/players are as slow as £#%&!. Bobby Charlton looked the business as an attacking midfielder but could he get up and down the pitch for 90 mins and tackle like Keane and Robbo?

Did Robbo basically invent the role of all-action midfielder/lynchpin/captain marvel? Who were Robbo's influences and heroes?

Neither could Alex Stepney - but he wasn't a midfielder either

https://youtu.be/VyGBucAUWXY

The modern day box2box midfielder, sign him up

Originally Posted by Turin

Keane has said that as a kid growing up he based his game on Robbo.

Trying to think, who would have been a comparable player to Robbo in the Sixties and Seventies? You watch games from that era and the play/players are as slow as £#%&!. Bobby Charlton looked the business as an attacking midfielder but could he get up and down the pitch for 90 mins and tackle like Keane and Robbo?

Did Robbo basically invent the role of all-action midfielder/lynchpin/captain marvel? Who were Robbo's influences and heroes?

Johan Neeskens doesn't like this.

Originally Posted by browser

https://youtu.be/VyGBucAUWXY

The modern day box2box midfielder, sign him up

He looks a major talent, Nqat.

Originally Posted by Denis Irwell

Neither could Alex Stepney - but he wasn't a midfielder either

What was he then? A traditional number 9? Hardly.

Originally Posted by Part 36 Offer

He looks a major talent, Nqat.

He did when he played against us last season, considering we've been told the current manager has a good eye for young talent pretty bizarre we weren't in for him.

Although for him, very good move.